Ablation and Surgery for PVCs.

Posted by jimadman55 @jimadman55, Oct 2 9:17pm

I have a high burden of PVCs 12.8%. Had Ablation 3 years ago. They’ve returned. My EP has referred me to Emory EP who does surgery on outside of heart. • Epicardial ablation – considered if PVCs originate on the outer heart surface and can’t be reached effectively from the inside. Is anyone ever had this and know anything about it. Seems to have more risk?

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@jimadman55
Never heard of that type of ablation. Will be glad to hear if others have information on it.

I would assume your holter monitor showed where it was coming from and thus the referral to Emory EP.

I had one ablation on the RV. It worked and has not returned. That was about 5 years ago. I continue to have them on LV. My EP put me on medication which really reduced my PVCs. He wanted to try the medication before he considered doing ablation on LV as the PVCs were coming from 3 different areas.

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I’m paraphrasing this from an expert in the field and this procedure who I’m close with. They gave me this answer.
Epicardial ablation refers to ablation on the outside of the heart. In that procedure, a catheter is placed under the rib cage and into the pericardium, the sack around the heart. It is typically not done as an open surgery. It was developed in Brazil in the mid 1990s because many rural citizens of Brazil suffered from a condition called Chagas disease, where they were exposed to insects that would cause bites and causing inflammation on the outside of the heart.

This technique was then brought to the United States by electrophysiologists such as Andrea Natale (Houston) and Paul Friedman (Mayo Rochester) and others, who published a series of papers demonstrating that if the heart muscle is too thick so that the more traditional endocardial ablation, from within the heart, could not treat an arrhythmia because the hotspot causing the rhythm disorder was deeper in the muscle, ablation from the outside could treat it.

Epicardial ablation does have additional risks. If the hotspot is near a coronary artery, which sits on the outside of the heart, it could be injured with a pericardial ablation. Sometimes a drain is left in place, which can be uncomfortable or painful, and some doctors leave it in for a couple of days and others will remove it at the end of the procedure. It has both been done under general anesthesia and under deep sedation, and it’s important to ask what approach will be taken.

There are newer techniques also being developed called pulse field ablation that allow for deeper energy and may be an alternative, although it is less well established. Sometimes alcohol can be put in veins to treat hot spots that are deep, and this can also be an alternative. The key is to find an electrophysiologist who is very experienced, and a center that has done at least 40 to 50 a year of these procedures and has accumulatively done hundreds. These are important questions to ask about.

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Profile picture for Vicki @vickilf5

I’m paraphrasing this from an expert in the field and this procedure who I’m close with. They gave me this answer.
Epicardial ablation refers to ablation on the outside of the heart. In that procedure, a catheter is placed under the rib cage and into the pericardium, the sack around the heart. It is typically not done as an open surgery. It was developed in Brazil in the mid 1990s because many rural citizens of Brazil suffered from a condition called Chagas disease, where they were exposed to insects that would cause bites and causing inflammation on the outside of the heart.

This technique was then brought to the United States by electrophysiologists such as Andrea Natale (Houston) and Paul Friedman (Mayo Rochester) and others, who published a series of papers demonstrating that if the heart muscle is too thick so that the more traditional endocardial ablation, from within the heart, could not treat an arrhythmia because the hotspot causing the rhythm disorder was deeper in the muscle, ablation from the outside could treat it.

Epicardial ablation does have additional risks. If the hotspot is near a coronary artery, which sits on the outside of the heart, it could be injured with a pericardial ablation. Sometimes a drain is left in place, which can be uncomfortable or painful, and some doctors leave it in for a couple of days and others will remove it at the end of the procedure. It has both been done under general anesthesia and under deep sedation, and it’s important to ask what approach will be taken.

There are newer techniques also being developed called pulse field ablation that allow for deeper energy and may be an alternative, although it is less well established. Sometimes alcohol can be put in veins to treat hot spots that are deep, and this can also be an alternative. The key is to find an electrophysiologist who is very experienced, and a center that has done at least 40 to 50 a year of these procedures and has accumulatively done hundreds. These are important questions to ask about.

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@vickilf5 Additionally they wanted to add…..
Additionally, here are some details of how the procedure works. The goal is to enter the sac around the outside of the heart without the need for open surgery, which is the way it was done in the past.

A needle is advanced under x-ray guidance from just below the ribs towards the heart. Once the tip of the needle is near the heart, a small puff of contrast, fluid that shows up on x-rays, is given. When this is seen to layer around the heart, then a wire is advanced through the needle. The needle is then removed and then a sheath, which is essentially like a straw with an introducer, which has a tapered point, is advanced over the wire so that you end up with access to the sack around the heart.

A catheter, which is a stable tube that can give energy at the end of it, which is used for ablation, is then advanced through the sheath into the sack around the heart where it can move freely and access any points on the outside surface of the heart.

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Profile picture for Vicki @vickilf5

I’m paraphrasing this from an expert in the field and this procedure who I’m close with. They gave me this answer.
Epicardial ablation refers to ablation on the outside of the heart. In that procedure, a catheter is placed under the rib cage and into the pericardium, the sack around the heart. It is typically not done as an open surgery. It was developed in Brazil in the mid 1990s because many rural citizens of Brazil suffered from a condition called Chagas disease, where they were exposed to insects that would cause bites and causing inflammation on the outside of the heart.

This technique was then brought to the United States by electrophysiologists such as Andrea Natale (Houston) and Paul Friedman (Mayo Rochester) and others, who published a series of papers demonstrating that if the heart muscle is too thick so that the more traditional endocardial ablation, from within the heart, could not treat an arrhythmia because the hotspot causing the rhythm disorder was deeper in the muscle, ablation from the outside could treat it.

Epicardial ablation does have additional risks. If the hotspot is near a coronary artery, which sits on the outside of the heart, it could be injured with a pericardial ablation. Sometimes a drain is left in place, which can be uncomfortable or painful, and some doctors leave it in for a couple of days and others will remove it at the end of the procedure. It has both been done under general anesthesia and under deep sedation, and it’s important to ask what approach will be taken.

There are newer techniques also being developed called pulse field ablation that allow for deeper energy and may be an alternative, although it is less well established. Sometimes alcohol can be put in veins to treat hot spots that are deep, and this can also be an alternative. The key is to find an electrophysiologist who is very experienced, and a center that has done at least 40 to 50 a year of these procedures and has accumulatively done hundreds. These are important questions to ask about.

Jump to this post

@vickilf5
Great information on this subject

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