Should long Covid individuals avoid air travel?

Posted by belson @belson, Dec 20, 2023

Should long Covid pts avoid Christmas time air travel. Particularly if one could not get flu nor Covid nor RSV vaccine due to long Covid symptoms?
Should I drive the long trip?

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@heyjoe415

So your long covid was caused by a covid booster?

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Yes it was. Within a couple of weeks of my first and last booster in November '21 I started to feel strange, a very unique head sensation I have since learned the medical community labels as pain. Felt like dizzy, but not quite that, felt like dropping in a roller coaster, but not quite that. When I stand still and close my eyes I feel a rocking sensation - Ive never fallen so it's not that bad. I have other issues too, like PEM (post exertion malaise) and Exercise Intolerance. These are two very recognized symptoms of Long COVID. Went to my GP as soon as possible in January '22. He threw every test in the book at me and couldn't find anything wrong, off to my Cardiologist who labeled what I was doing as "the journey of what its not". Shortening the story, finally went to Mayo August '23, on their program and feeling better. The medical professionals here in Charleston SC tried their best to help and they did to a degree, but they just down know what to do and Mayo does.

My Wife and I tested positive for COVID July '22 and our symptoms were 'bad cold' like.

When I posed the question to Mayo professionals about getting LC from vaccine they responded "yes we have many people tell us that".

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@arichards3

Yes it was. Within a couple of weeks of my first and last booster in November '21 I started to feel strange, a very unique head sensation I have since learned the medical community labels as pain. Felt like dizzy, but not quite that, felt like dropping in a roller coaster, but not quite that. When I stand still and close my eyes I feel a rocking sensation - Ive never fallen so it's not that bad. I have other issues too, like PEM (post exertion malaise) and Exercise Intolerance. These are two very recognized symptoms of Long COVID. Went to my GP as soon as possible in January '22. He threw every test in the book at me and couldn't find anything wrong, off to my Cardiologist who labeled what I was doing as "the journey of what its not". Shortening the story, finally went to Mayo August '23, on their program and feeling better. The medical professionals here in Charleston SC tried their best to help and they did to a degree, but they just down know what to do and Mayo does.

My Wife and I tested positive for COVID July '22 and our symptoms were 'bad cold' like.

When I posed the question to Mayo professionals about getting LC from vaccine they responded "yes we have many people tell us that".

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Wow thanks for the detailed reply, although I'm terribly sorry for what has happened to you.

Covid is a mystery enough. I'm 69 and have been vaxxed and boosted, same for my wife. She has never had Covid, and I had it for about 5 days last year, but would describe it as a scratchy throat and the sniffles for 3 or days, and my wife never got it. I have a personal trainer, 27 y/o and as fit as they come, and he was hit hard the first round, a 104 degree fever for 5 days, before the vaccine, and just recently, he's been hit very hard again. He was out all of last week and I don't know if he's tested negative yet. He described it as "brutal". and he's 27 and Covid is supposed to be getting milder. Well, not for everyone.

And long Covid is even stranger and again, I'm so sorry for what happened to you. I hope you are getting better and get past this. People with LC all have different stories about their symptoms, but they're all uniformly awful. I do hear that exhaustion is common in LC and I can't imagine how awful that must be to deal with.

I admit I'm still in favor of the vaccines and boosters and will continue to get them as I believe the benefits outweigh the risks. But I do believe you and appreciate that you took the time to send such a considered response. I'm glad you found some help in the medical community, even if they haven't really figured out what this disease is and why it affects so many so differently.

All the best to you and your family. Please be well.

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@heyjoe415

Wow thanks for the detailed reply, although I'm terribly sorry for what has happened to you.

Covid is a mystery enough. I'm 69 and have been vaxxed and boosted, same for my wife. She has never had Covid, and I had it for about 5 days last year, but would describe it as a scratchy throat and the sniffles for 3 or days, and my wife never got it. I have a personal trainer, 27 y/o and as fit as they come, and he was hit hard the first round, a 104 degree fever for 5 days, before the vaccine, and just recently, he's been hit very hard again. He was out all of last week and I don't know if he's tested negative yet. He described it as "brutal". and he's 27 and Covid is supposed to be getting milder. Well, not for everyone.

And long Covid is even stranger and again, I'm so sorry for what happened to you. I hope you are getting better and get past this. People with LC all have different stories about their symptoms, but they're all uniformly awful. I do hear that exhaustion is common in LC and I can't imagine how awful that must be to deal with.

I admit I'm still in favor of the vaccines and boosters and will continue to get them as I believe the benefits outweigh the risks. But I do believe you and appreciate that you took the time to send such a considered response. I'm glad you found some help in the medical community, even if they haven't really figured out what this disease is and why it affects so many so differently.

All the best to you and your family. Please be well.

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I am unaware of any studies supporting my opinion, but it seems vaccinated or not there are some people more likely to catch COVID and some less likely regardless of being 'out in public', 'exposed' or not. Maybe long term we will read of some studies that rein in the phenomenon we are seeing.

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Sadly, the number of cases like yours is probably very small and so it's not being studied. And studies supporting your results don't change your misery. That's a shame. Your suffering is real and no one should have to go through it. Full stop.

And the same with different people reacting differently, some with mild symptoms, others like yours or my trainer with horrible sickness and long-term exhaustion and other effects.

I'm not a conspiracy-theory type. That said, Covid has struck with such ferocity, unpredictability as to individual responses, and rapid change of the virus itself - well this doesn't seem to be the way living things evolve. Evolution is largely logical with changes occurring very slowly, as organisms evolve.

Covid doesn't fit that pattern. I do believe this virus was engineered by the Chinese, or someone. To what end, I don't know. But I hope that can be proven so this never happens again.

Take care of yourself, and thank you very much for sharing your story. I really hope you can get past this nasty disease.

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@heyjoe415

Sadly, the number of cases like yours is probably very small and so it's not being studied. And studies supporting your results don't change your misery. That's a shame. Your suffering is real and no one should have to go through it. Full stop.

And the same with different people reacting differently, some with mild symptoms, others like yours or my trainer with horrible sickness and long-term exhaustion and other effects.

I'm not a conspiracy-theory type. That said, Covid has struck with such ferocity, unpredictability as to individual responses, and rapid change of the virus itself - well this doesn't seem to be the way living things evolve. Evolution is largely logical with changes occurring very slowly, as organisms evolve.

Covid doesn't fit that pattern. I do believe this virus was engineered by the Chinese, or someone. To what end, I don't know. But I hope that can be proven so this never happens again.

Take care of yourself, and thank you very much for sharing your story. I really hope you can get past this nasty disease.

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“ well this doesn't seem to be the way living things evolve. Evolution is largely logical with changes occurring very slowly, as organisms evolve.”

Viruses are quite different.

Evolution for long-live species takes longer as the number of years needed to generate a new crop of organism determines the speed of evolution. It’s multiple times a day for a virus. (I don’t know this number off the top of my head, but bacteria can double every 20 minutes.) Evolution for a virus happens quickly, particularly if there’s a lot of it in the wild.

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Evolution occurs at all time scales and for most organisms. It is a very complex process, part of which is natural selection. Covid mutates and replicates very quickly, and it is evolving towards highly contagious but not killing the host (which also ensures the virus will be around longer). Because the Covid RNA mutates rapidly, the vaccines are not as effective as for pestilences with very slow stable DNA mutations, such as smallpox and polio.

Ironic, but some people don't trust the covid vaccine because it came out too quickly, even though it was the result of decades of combined research on genetics, diseases, and treatments, They really should have a Noble prize for this. Covid and vaccines require a lot more study, but that will take longer than it took to develop the vaccine. Research and scientific publications require a lot of study and documentation.

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@arichards3

There isn't any ineligibility for vaccine. It's a patient/Doctor decision for those of us concerned. Since my Long COVID was caused by my first booster in November '21, every one of my Doctors exception one, advised to not take the vaccine again. I didn't need much encouragement because I had already made that decision. Never again and my self care tactic will be to carry Paxlovid with me when I travel internationally and only if I become seriously ill.

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I agree, and wish Paxlovid was more easily available.
I will never understand why we have to jump through hoops to get Paxlovid.

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@kayabbott

Evolution occurs at all time scales and for most organisms. It is a very complex process, part of which is natural selection. Covid mutates and replicates very quickly, and it is evolving towards highly contagious but not killing the host (which also ensures the virus will be around longer). Because the Covid RNA mutates rapidly, the vaccines are not as effective as for pestilences with very slow stable DNA mutations, such as smallpox and polio.

Ironic, but some people don't trust the covid vaccine because it came out too quickly, even though it was the result of decades of combined research on genetics, diseases, and treatments, They really should have a Noble prize for this. Covid and vaccines require a lot more study, but that will take longer than it took to develop the vaccine. Research and scientific publications require a lot of study and documentation.

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Point taken, however I think the jury is still out on just how many people are like the poster who indicates long Covid was brought on by Vax.
The numbers may look great (who knows for sure?) until you are the one who gets long Covid....then not so much.
We are years out (unfortunately) from really understanding the damage from the virus and from the vaccine.

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@dloos

Point taken, however I think the jury is still out on just how many people are like the poster who indicates long Covid was brought on by Vax.
The numbers may look great (who knows for sure?) until you are the one who gets long Covid....then not so much.
We are years out (unfortunately) from really understanding the damage from the virus and from the vaccine.

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It is possible that the poster had an immune response to the vaccine (other than alerting to invading inactive RNA bits). It is more likely that long covid is from infection, particularly for some that have posted that they got the vax many months before LC symptoms. BTW, 15 years ago I caught H1N1 and it triggered celiac disease in me (I have the HLA-DQ8 0302 gene). So, things can initiate autoimmune diseases and syndromes. Some deaths from Covid were from immune responses to the virus, bacteria (chlamydia can trigger Reiters Syndrome [aka Reactive Arthritis]), pregnancy can result in autimmune disorders, and so on.

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@dloos

I agree, and wish Paxlovid was more easily available.
I will never understand why we have to jump through hoops to get Paxlovid.

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Admittedly I haven't needed Paxlovid, but my GP said all I needed to do was ask and give him a couple of weeks notice and he would get it for me. My intent is to have it available when I travel internationally. I would assume its that available everywhere in USA.

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