Stroke medication: Taking Eliquis to reduce risk of stroke

Thanks for your reply. I stopped the simvastatin for two weeks at which time I was not pain free but was much improved. My primary care doc changed my rx to Crestor which she said had fewer side effects. However, now the rib cage pain is back. I am wondering if cutting the dosage in half would ease the pain. Have you tried that? Please let us all know how you are doing and if you and your doctors have found a solution.

Has anyone researched or been taking Nattokinase to breakup blood clots? I have a friend who was put on Eliquis after a TIA which included AFIB and after being on it for 6 months developed a blood clot in her leg and the cardiologist told her to take asprin. So was Eliquis not doing its job? Another friend of a friend had a mild stroke while on Eliquis but was told because she had been on Eliquis it made the stroke less severe. I have paroxysmal AFIB, am 77, have good cholesterol counts and no blood issues but have been prescribed Eliquis (5mg) twice a day. The actual AFIB is not being treated, only a remedy for a potential side effect of blood clotting in the heart is being offered. I am just trying to sort out the cause and treatment options.

Has anyone researched or been taking Nattokinase to breakup blood clots? I have a friend who was put on Eliquis after a TIA which included AFIB and after being on it for 6 months developed a blood clot in her leg and the cardiologist told her to take asprin. So was Eliquis not doing its job? Another friend of a friend had a mild stroke while on Eliquis but was told because she had been on Eliquis it made the stroke less severe. I have paroxysmal AFIB, am 77, have good cholesterol counts and no blood issues but have been prescribed Eliquis (5mg) twice a day. The actual AFIB is not being treated, only a remedy for a potential side effect of blood clotting in the heart is being offered. I am just trying to sort out the cause and treatment options.

Welcome @harp23, I had not heard of Nattokinase but I just started on Eliquis (5mg) twice a day after a trip to the ER and an overnight in the hospital for a blood clot in my leg and then one in my lungs. I don't have AFIB but do have hypertension so also take high blood pressure meds. I have to go back in January for an ultrasound to look at the clots and determine if I need to be on Eliquis a few months longer or if it is a lifetime thing. After doing a quick search and finding the following article, I think I might discuss Nattokinase with my vascular medicine care team to see if it might be an option.

"Nattokinase dissolves blood clots by directly hydrolyzing fibrin and plasmin substrate. It converts endogenous prourokinase to urokinase (uPA). It also degrades plasminogen activator inhibitor (PAI-1) and increases the level of tissue plasminogen activator (t-PA)."
--- Nattokinase: An Oral Antithrombotic Agent for the Prevention of Cardiovascular Disease:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5372539/.
I would not take Nattokinase without discussing it with my care team especially if you take any other blood thinners or medications. Here are a few more research articles:

"Nattokinase has not been approved by the FDA, and contrary to claims on the internet, it should not take the place of an anticoagulant."
--- Can I replace prescribed anticoagulants with Nattokinase?: https://www.stoptheclot.org/faq/can-i-replace-prescribed-anticoagulants-with-nattokinase/

--- Nattokinase: A Promising Alternative in Prevention and Treatment of Cardiovascular Diseases: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6043915/.

Have you discussed it with your doctor?

My cardiologist is somewhat familiar with Nattokinase. He says the biggest drawback is the lack of studies and because of that he can’t actually recommend taking it but since it’s not a pharmaceutical studies may be hard to come by and will not be funded . From what I have read it has no side effects and does not need an antidote. I was told that my risk of stroke is 3 1/2 - 4% if I do nothing. If I take Eliquis it will be reduced to around 1 1/2%. I am somewhat perplexed by one post in which someone mentioned having had irregular heart rhythm since birth yet apparently had not had any blood clots or strokes even though they had not been on blood thinners all their life. And one other question I have is since there are no blood tests done if you are on Eliquis how do you know it is doing it’s job of preventing blood clots? Is there a test in which it is determined that your blood is not at risk of undue clotting?

The only test I’m aware of is the D-dimer test which I think measures blood clot particles in the blood. This was the test that sent me to the ER to check for DVT in my right leg due to the high number.
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diagnostics/22045-d-dimer-test

Hi, @harp23. Welcome to our ongoing discussions about anticoagulants (sometimes called "blood thinners") by patients exploring whether to start using them. Your condition seems very similar to mine over the last several years -- A-fib, small stroke, anticoagulant, concern about side effects. I have a more serious issue to raise presently. First, though, my A-fib is essentially asymptomatic, normal heart rate over the last 50 years or more (except for the short time after A-fib was diagnosed and a short time later when I suffered a small stroke), relatively good health otherwise for an 80-year-old man, taking a 5mg dose of anticoagulant every day, no upgraded treatment for my A-fib since the beginning.

My "more serious issue" is something you didn't mention -- antidotes for anticoagulants. For any one of those blood-thinners, an antidote has been developed -- sometimes more than one for an anticoagulant. The problems here are numerous, not singular. Here's why I feel that way: A friend from down the street fell off a step ladder in his garage just before I drove by and saw him in pain and blood from his head. I called 911, and the ambulance was there promptly and took him to the new hospital a mile away -- minutes away. In that emergency room with him was his wife who provided immediate information on his medications, which included an anticoagulant. But within a half-hour, he was on a helicopter for a 35-mile ride to a major hospital for treatment of a bleeding head wound. By the time his wife and children could catch up with him in the other hospital, he was in critical condition and died in their arms.

What happened? The crucial factor was that the first hospital he was taken to DID NOT HAVE AN ANTIDOTE IN STOCK for the anticoagulant that he had been on for several years. So he essentially bled to death.

That tragedy overwhelms me every time I go to a clinic or urgent care program or emergency room. So my first question at the outset of every one of those places is whether they have the most recent up-to-date antidote for my "blood thinner." Twice in the half-dozen times I had to ask that question, the answer I got was, "We'll get some brought in from another hospital right away." In both cases, I quickly left the facility and had family or friend take me to a clinic I knew I could trust. I always arrange for friends or family to be with me, right behind the 911 ambulance, for this purpose.

Whatever anticoagulant you are using, check several times a year to see what the latest and most effective antidote is for THAT SPECIFIC "blood thinner" and whether the antidote is available wherever you may need it. Take care and join me in making sure nobody else is told to take aspirin as an antidote for their anticoagulants. Martin

Hi, @harp23. Welcome to our ongoing discussions about anticoagulants (sometimes called "blood thinners") by patients exploring whether to start using them. Your condition seems very similar to mine over the last several years -- A-fib, small stroke, anticoagulant, concern about side effects. I have a more serious issue to raise presently. First, though, my A-fib is essentially asymptomatic, normal heart rate over the last 50 years or more (except for the short time after A-fib was diagnosed and a short time later when I suffered a small stroke), relatively good health otherwise for an 80-year-old man, taking a 5mg dose of anticoagulant every day, no upgraded treatment for my A-fib since the beginning.

My "more serious issue" is something you didn't mention -- antidotes for anticoagulants. For any one of those blood-thinners, an antidote has been developed -- sometimes more than one for an anticoagulant. The problems here are numerous, not singular. Here's why I feel that way: A friend from down the street fell off a step ladder in his garage just before I drove by and saw him in pain and blood from his head. I called 911, and the ambulance was there promptly and took him to the new hospital a mile away -- minutes away. In that emergency room with him was his wife who provided immediate information on his medications, which included an anticoagulant. But within a half-hour, he was on a helicopter for a 35-mile ride to a major hospital for treatment of a bleeding head wound. By the time his wife and children could catch up with him in the other hospital, he was in critical condition and died in their arms.

What happened? The crucial factor was that the first hospital he was taken to DID NOT HAVE AN ANTIDOTE IN STOCK for the anticoagulant that he had been on for several years. So he essentially bled to death.

That tragedy overwhelms me every time I go to a clinic or urgent care program or emergency room. So my first question at the outset of every one of those places is whether they have the most recent up-to-date antidote for my "blood thinner." Twice in the half-dozen times I had to ask that question, the answer I got was, "We'll get some brought in from another hospital right away." In both cases, I quickly left the facility and had family or friend take me to a clinic I knew I could trust. I always arrange for friends or family to be with me, right behind the 911 ambulance, for this purpose.

Whatever anticoagulant you are using, check several times a year to see what the latest and most effective antidote is for THAT SPECIFIC "blood thinner" and whether the antidote is available wherever you may need it. Take care and join me in making sure nobody else is told to take aspirin as an antidote for their anticoagulants. Martin

Has anyone researched or been taking Nattokinase to breakup blood clots? I have a friend who was put on Eliquis after a TIA which included AFIB and after being on it for 6 months developed a blood clot in her leg and the cardiologist told her to take asprin. So was Eliquis not doing its job? Another friend of a friend had a mild stroke while on Eliquis but was told because she had been on Eliquis it made the stroke less severe. I have paroxysmal AFIB, am 77, have good cholesterol counts and no blood issues but have been prescribed Eliquis (5mg) twice a day. The actual AFIB is not being treated, only a remedy for a potential side effect of blood clotting in the heart is being offered. I am just trying to sort out the cause and treatment options.