Neuropathy: Numbness only, no pain

Posted by John, Volunteer Mentor @johnbishop, Sep 10, 2020

When I was first diagnosed with idiopathic small fiber peripheral neuropathy and numbness was my only symptom, my neurologist told me that I am one of the "lucky" few who didn't also have pain and other associated symptoms of neuropathy. I knew there were others out there but yesterday I met my first member on Connect who has a similar diagnosis. I want to thank that member for joining Mayo Clinic Connect and sending me a private message that I would like to answer here to start this discussion.

Hello @afirefly, Welcome to Connect. You mentioned being diagnosed with large fiber demyelinating predominately sensory peripheral neuropathy at Mayo Clinic. The neurologist's recommendation was exercise and balance exercises. Your symptoms are less than one year and are primarily progressive loss of sensation in your hands and feet. You also said aside from occasional muscle cramps in your calves and dyesthesias in hands and feet, you experience little discomfort. Your greatest concern now is the degree of disability you will have as the numbness progresses.

I can tell you that we think a lot alike. When I walked out of the neurologists office with similar symptoms of just numbness in the feet and lower legs with no pain – and no recommendations for treatment, I was pretty down. I was told to let them know as the condition progressed and my biggest fear at the time was not being able to drive myself. That's when I started doing my own research and found Mayo Clinic Connect after being diagnosed with idiopathic small fiber PN.

You have some really good and thoughtful questions which I will try to answer the best I can.

Question: Although you have improved on the Protocol, did you ever have complete loss of sensation in your feet? I ask because I truly dread the possibility of total sensory loss in my feet.

Answer: I never had a complete loss of sensation in my feet. At the worst, they felt numb and sometimes tingly but not painful, just uncomfortable. They mostly always feel cold and after being diagnosed with lymphedema I have to wear compression socks which doesn't help the numbness feeling. I have noticed that it seems like I've had some feeling returning ever so often when I'm exercising on my crossfit exercise bike. I use it several times a day for 30 to 45 minutes when I can to build up leg and arm strength. I recently purchased a device called a Sand Dune Stepper to work on my balance issues. I do think it helps and I've noticed a little more feeling in the bottom of my feet – if that makes sense for numb feet. Website – https://www.sanddunestepper.com/
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Question: Assuming you have little or no sensation in your toes and the soles of your feet, are you still able to drive a car?
If yes, would you kindly tell me what maneuvers/measures you have used over the years to compensate for the absence of feeling in your feet while driving?

Answer: I am still able to drive a car. The numbness was always a concern in my mind but never kept me from feeling the pressure of placing my feet on the pedals and pushing them down or letting them up.
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Question: Assuming you have little or no sensation in your toes and the soles of your feet, how difficult is it for you to walk? Before my neuropathy, if my foot was in a position too long it would "go to sleep" from lack of circulation to the nerves. The sensation would return seconds later once I changed my foot position. However, I don't believe I would have been able to walk on that sleeping foot until the circulation had been restored. Please tell me if there are/were any maneuvers/measures you have used over the years to compensate for the absence of feeling in your feet while walking.

Answer: When I was in my late 40s, my wife would sometimes tell me that I walk like an old man and now I am one and still walking the same. I've always been slow getting up and slow to take the first steps when walking. I guess I would call it trying to be careful because I wasn't sure of my footing. I think recognizing that your feet may not be as steady is a good thing and keeps you alert when walking. I struggle with walking any distance due to lower back issues. I recently had some physical therapy to learn some back and stomach muscle strengthing exercises which has helped some. Now I just have to execute a plan to do them often.
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Question: You indicated that the cost of the old Protocol was under $10/day (prior to 525 Protocol) several years ago and that the current 525 Protocol is $6.44/day. Does that mean Protocol 525 these days costs somewhat less than the old (original) Protocol?

Answer: Each item in the original protocol lasted a different number of days so the cost was more spread out and roughly calculated at under $10/day. The new 525 Protocol is a 30 day supply for $6.44/day ($193.20). It's also fewer pills to swallow which I really like. The Ramp up version is different due to the R-ALA in the regular 30 day supply. The daily R-ALA dosage is 1200 mg which causes some people to have stomach problems so the ramp up is to gradually increase the dosage to get use to the higher amount. I never had an issue because I was already taking supplements for the PN from my research and was taking that amount of ALA before I found the original protocol. Related discussion — Have you tried the new Protocol 525 product for neuropathy relief?: https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/have-you-tried-the-new-protocol-525-product-for-neuropathy-relief/
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Question: Do you use orthotics or inserts in your shoes? Special shoes?

Answer: I've tried some orthotics and different inserts but don't always use them. I found some felt/wool inserts that I like during the winter time as an extra cushion. I do like Sketchers because of the memory foam cushion and comfort. I used to wear the canvas shell ones but my neurologist told me it would be best to wear shoes with good side support for walking. So, I try to choose slip-ons with good side support made out of leather. There is another discussion on Connect you might find helpful for shoes – If the shoe fits…right?: https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/if-the-shoe-fits-right/
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Question: Besides daily foot exams, lotion to your feet, and avoiding barefoot walking, are there any other measures you use to protect your numb feet?

Answer: For me, this all started with a trip to the ER after waking up one night to go to the bathroom and when reaching the bathroom seeing blood all over the floor and trying to figure out where it's coming from. Surprised was I to see it pumping in a small stream from my ankle. Long story short, I unconciously rubbed my feet during the night and I had a hang nail on my big toe which tore the skin and part of a vein close to the surface. After that episode, I always wear white short loose socks to bed and I apply lotion to my feet and legs to keep them moisturized. I think that also helps with the healing process when you think that there are tiny sensory nerves just under the skin and it helps to keep the skin moist to protect them.

Hope this helps…let me know if I missed anything or if you have any other questions. We have a great group of members with a lot of experience here on Connect.

John

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Neuropathy Support Group.

@fredpassin6

Where can I get protocol 525?

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Good evening @fredpassin6 and @evansjohn007. Welcome to Connect.....both of you. You have arrived here with a form of neuropathy that is well understood by our colleague @johnbishop. You may have noticed his story about numbness at the top of this section.

Just so you know, I have pain and numbness. I think at this point, I have handled the pain almost better than the numbness. The numbness in my hands and fingers makes it difficult to type these posts without making mistakes. The pain in my hands is something I have learned to tolerate better than the numbness I do believe. Anyway....I attend two sessions a week of MFR, myofascial relief therapy. That ensures that I can drive my car and fold the laundry or do other household chores.

Between the two of us, John and I have been handling our SFPN (small fiber peripheral neuropathy by sharing options with each other. Perhaps @johnbishop will have a few moments to re-introduce himself and let you know about protocol 525.

May you be safe, protected, and free of inner and outer harm.
Chris

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@artscaping

Good evening @fredpassin6 and @evansjohn007. Welcome to Connect.....both of you. You have arrived here with a form of neuropathy that is well understood by our colleague @johnbishop. You may have noticed his story about numbness at the top of this section.

Just so you know, I have pain and numbness. I think at this point, I have handled the pain almost better than the numbness. The numbness in my hands and fingers makes it difficult to type these posts without making mistakes. The pain in my hands is something I have learned to tolerate better than the numbness I do believe. Anyway....I attend two sessions a week of MFR, myofascial relief therapy. That ensures that I can drive my car and fold the laundry or do other household chores.

Between the two of us, John and I have been handling our SFPN (small fiber peripheral neuropathy by sharing options with each other. Perhaps @johnbishop will have a few moments to re-introduce himself and let you know about protocol 525.

May you be safe, protected, and free of inner and outer harm.
Chris

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Hello @fredpassin6, I would like to add my welcome to Connect along with Chris @artscaping and others. @evansjohn007 only posted the one time and is no longer following Connect. I shared my story earlier on Connect here - https://connect.mayoclinic.org/comment/310341/.

You can learn more about the Protocol 525 on their website here: https://theprotocol525.com/faq/. It got the 525 name from the number of pills you take a day - 5 in the morning, 2 at noon and 5 in the evening. They recently changed the number of pills to 4 in the morning, 2 at noon and 4 in the evening but haven't changed the name to 424. You can join their Facebook group from the website but make sure if you do that you read the new members welcome post.

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I too just have numbness and no pain. I am also concerned about the rate of progression of PN only having been diagnosed a month ago due to too much B6 which I stopped taking. My neurologist said if it subsides after stopping B6 then that was probably the cause. I also have cervical spinal stenosis which he said is “on the differential” as another possible contributing cause. It seems to be worsening although I read it can get worse before it improves and supposedly takes 6 months after stopping B6 if that’s the cause. I noticed a week ago that my left foot had new numbness in the toes when I got up which matches my right foot. When kneeling I can’t feel either foot until I stand up. I can also move toes so not sure which nerves are causing numbness. Have any of you seen this sort of progression and/or any improvement over time? Would love to hear your experience. Thanks.

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I feel the same way…it started about 11 years ago, when I got home after working 12 hr shifts….my two middle toes on both feet felt like there was a rubber band tied around them. Since then, I feel like I have ants running across my feet, my toes move involuntarily,and my skin crawls with tingling sensation, or cold water dripping on them. EMG shows SFN.

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@paul14

I too just have numbness and no pain. I am also concerned about the rate of progression of PN only having been diagnosed a month ago due to too much B6 which I stopped taking. My neurologist said if it subsides after stopping B6 then that was probably the cause. I also have cervical spinal stenosis which he said is “on the differential” as another possible contributing cause. It seems to be worsening although I read it can get worse before it improves and supposedly takes 6 months after stopping B6 if that’s the cause. I noticed a week ago that my left foot had new numbness in the toes when I got up which matches my right foot. When kneeling I can’t feel either foot until I stand up. I can also move toes so not sure which nerves are causing numbness. Have any of you seen this sort of progression and/or any improvement over time? Would love to hear your experience. Thanks.

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In a matter of 3-4 mo, I lost tons of feeling in both feet & lower legs. I have a terrible spine. My Lumbar Myelogram showed mid- severe deformity of the thoracic spine. I had to have surgery to prevent more numbness. I am 74 yr old & had a difficult time, but now improving.
Never take out FEELING for granted!

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@paul14

I too just have numbness and no pain. I am also concerned about the rate of progression of PN only having been diagnosed a month ago due to too much B6 which I stopped taking. My neurologist said if it subsides after stopping B6 then that was probably the cause. I also have cervical spinal stenosis which he said is “on the differential” as another possible contributing cause. It seems to be worsening although I read it can get worse before it improves and supposedly takes 6 months after stopping B6 if that’s the cause. I noticed a week ago that my left foot had new numbness in the toes when I got up which matches my right foot. When kneeling I can’t feel either foot until I stand up. I can also move toes so not sure which nerves are causing numbness. Have any of you seen this sort of progression and/or any improvement over time? Would love to hear your experience. Thanks.

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You do not really state what caused all this! It couldn’t be just from the B6. Did you have surgery followed by chemo or were you diagnosed with some other illness?

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@tessie63

You do not really state what caused all this! It couldn’t be just from the B6. Did you have surgery followed by chemo or were you diagnosed with some other illness?

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Hi Tess
Thanks for your messages, sorry I just saw them. I also have Cervical spinal stenosis in several discs most severe in 3 & 4. The doctor has that and B6 as contributing causes but doesn’t determine which one was more of the cause so it’s Idiopathic at this point. Symptoms didn’t improve when I stopped B6 as I said so it remains unclear. I didn’t have surgery or another illness. I was in good health in Jan and this came out of nowhere. I’m still trying to come to grips with it.

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Don't give up on possibility it is the b6. You are correct that stopping b6 supplements initially makes things worse with more symptoms there is protocol to remove b6 from nerves . There is website exploring B6 Toxicity using Western science medicine that explains the process . Basically it is very good hydration, low b6 diet and exercise that may take over year or more to get stored b6 out of body. Just returning b6 in blood bk to normal is not enough. Hope you find help.

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I've also got paresthesia and peripheral neuropathy, no pain, for which no cause has been identified.

Are there any research studies that anyone knows about?

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@paul14

Hi Tess
Thanks for your messages, sorry I just saw them. I also have Cervical spinal stenosis in several discs most severe in 3 & 4. The doctor has that and B6 as contributing causes but doesn’t determine which one was more of the cause so it’s Idiopathic at this point. Symptoms didn’t improve when I stopped B6 as I said so it remains unclear. I didn’t have surgery or another illness. I was in good health in Jan and this came out of nowhere. I’m still trying to come to grips with it.

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Wow! I’m so sorry this is happening to you. My neuropathy was caused from the chemo. I have ho pain but the numbness in my hands and feet is disturbing. I am working with a reflexologist now and I had my first treatment today. He is also a Reiki Grandmaster and is certified in both. He has helped many people with neuropathy so I pray he can help me. Nothing else has so I might as well try this. I just want to walk once again before I leave this earth! I will tell you if I am helped by this treatment. I wish you all the best. Hugs

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