Neuropathy: Numbness only, no pain

Posted by John, Volunteer Mentor @johnbishop, Sep 10, 2020

When I was first diagnosed with idiopathic small fiber peripheral neuropathy and numbness was my only symptom, my neurologist told me that I am one of the "lucky" few who didn't also have pain and other associated symptoms of neuropathy. I knew there were others out there but yesterday I met my first member on Connect who has a similar diagnosis. I want to thank that member for joining Mayo Clinic Connect and sending me a private message that I would like to answer here to start this discussion.

Hello @afirefly, Welcome to Connect. You mentioned being diagnosed with large fiber demyelinating predominately sensory peripheral neuropathy at Mayo Clinic. The neurologist's recommendation was exercise and balance exercises. Your symptoms are less than one year and are primarily progressive loss of sensation in your hands and feet. You also said aside from occasional muscle cramps in your calves and dyesthesias in hands and feet, you experience little discomfort. Your greatest concern now is the degree of disability you will have as the numbness progresses.

I can tell you that we think a lot alike. When I walked out of the neurologists office with similar symptoms of just numbness in the feet and lower legs with no pain – and no recommendations for treatment, I was pretty down. I was told to let them know as the condition progressed and my biggest fear at the time was not being able to drive myself. That's when I started doing my own research and found Mayo Clinic Connect after being diagnosed with idiopathic small fiber PN.

You have some really good and thoughtful questions which I will try to answer the best I can.

Question: Although you have improved on the Protocol, did you ever have complete loss of sensation in your feet? I ask because I truly dread the possibility of total sensory loss in my feet.

Answer: I never had a complete loss of sensation in my feet. At the worst, they felt numb and sometimes tingly but not painful, just uncomfortable. They mostly always feel cold and after being diagnosed with lymphedema I have to wear compression socks which doesn't help the numbness feeling. I have noticed that it seems like I've had some feeling returning ever so often when I'm exercising on my crossfit exercise bike. I use it several times a day for 30 to 45 minutes when I can to build up leg and arm strength. I recently purchased a device called a Sand Dune Stepper to work on my balance issues. I do think it helps and I've noticed a little more feeling in the bottom of my feet – if that makes sense for numb feet. Website – https://www.sanddunestepper.com/
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Question: Assuming you have little or no sensation in your toes and the soles of your feet, are you still able to drive a car?
If yes, would you kindly tell me what maneuvers/measures you have used over the years to compensate for the absence of feeling in your feet while driving?

Answer: I am still able to drive a car. The numbness was always a concern in my mind but never kept me from feeling the pressure of placing my feet on the pedals and pushing them down or letting them up.
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Question: Assuming you have little or no sensation in your toes and the soles of your feet, how difficult is it for you to walk? Before my neuropathy, if my foot was in a position too long it would "go to sleep" from lack of circulation to the nerves. The sensation would return seconds later once I changed my foot position. However, I don't believe I would have been able to walk on that sleeping foot until the circulation had been restored. Please tell me if there are/were any maneuvers/measures you have used over the years to compensate for the absence of feeling in your feet while walking.

Answer: When I was in my late 40s, my wife would sometimes tell me that I walk like an old man and now I am one and still walking the same. I've always been slow getting up and slow to take the first steps when walking. I guess I would call it trying to be careful because I wasn't sure of my footing. I think recognizing that your feet may not be as steady is a good thing and keeps you alert when walking. I struggle with walking any distance due to lower back issues. I recently had some physical therapy to learn some back and stomach muscle strengthing exercises which has helped some. Now I just have to execute a plan to do them often.
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Question: You indicated that the cost of the old Protocol was under $10/day (prior to 525 Protocol) several years ago and that the current 525 Protocol is $6.44/day. Does that mean Protocol 525 these days costs somewhat less than the old (original) Protocol?

Answer: Each item in the original protocol lasted a different number of days so the cost was more spread out and roughly calculated at under $10/day. The new 525 Protocol is a 30 day supply for $6.44/day ($193.20). It's also fewer pills to swallow which I really like. The Ramp up version is different due to the R-ALA in the regular 30 day supply. The daily R-ALA dosage is 1200 mg which causes some people to have stomach problems so the ramp up is to gradually increase the dosage to get use to the higher amount. I never had an issue because I was already taking supplements for the PN from my research and was taking that amount of ALA before I found the original protocol. Related discussion — Have you tried the new Protocol 525 product for neuropathy relief?: https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/have-you-tried-the-new-protocol-525-product-for-neuropathy-relief/
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Question: Do you use orthotics or inserts in your shoes? Special shoes?

Answer: I've tried some orthotics and different inserts but don't always use them. I found some felt/wool inserts that I like during the winter time as an extra cushion. I do like Sketchers because of the memory foam cushion and comfort. I used to wear the canvas shell ones but my neurologist told me it would be best to wear shoes with good side support for walking. So, I try to choose slip-ons with good side support made out of leather. There is another discussion on Connect you might find helpful for shoes – If the shoe fits…right?: https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/if-the-shoe-fits-right/
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Question: Besides daily foot exams, lotion to your feet, and avoiding barefoot walking, are there any other measures you use to protect your numb feet?

Answer: For me, this all started with a trip to the ER after waking up one night to go to the bathroom and when reaching the bathroom seeing blood all over the floor and trying to figure out where it's coming from. Surprised was I to see it pumping in a small stream from my ankle. Long story short, I unconciously rubbed my feet during the night and I had a hang nail on my big toe which tore the skin and part of a vein close to the surface. After that episode, I always wear white short loose socks to bed and I apply lotion to my feet and legs to keep them moisturized. I think that also helps with the healing process when you think that there are tiny sensory nerves just under the skin and it helps to keep the skin moist to protect them.

Hope this helps…let me know if I missed anything or if you have any other questions. We have a great group of members with a lot of experience here on Connect.

John

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Neuropathy Support Group.

I'm curious if anyone else has the issue that I do. I started to get balance problems that seemed to affect both my feet. But unlike other peripheral neuropathy patients, I do not have any tingling or pain in either foot.
I have found considerable relief from accupuncture, namely electrical stimulation through both my legs. I'd say an 80% improvement. Anybody heard of that or have any thoughts about it?

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@arlengrossman

I'm curious if anyone else has the issue that I do. I started to get balance problems that seemed to affect both my feet. But unlike other peripheral neuropathy patients, I do not have any tingling or pain in either foot.
I have found considerable relief from accupuncture, namely electrical stimulation through both my legs. I'd say an 80% improvement. Anybody heard of that or have any thoughts about it?

Jump to this post

I have long motor nerve dysfunction that does not create any type of pain. It does create problems with balance. I cannot for the life of me do a heel/toe walk without falling over. This is different than a short or sensory nerve dysfunction I'd like to point out. Spinal stenosis can also cause weakness without pain. Have you seen a neurologist for nerve testing?

REPLY
@arlengrossman

I'm curious if anyone else has the issue that I do. I started to get balance problems that seemed to affect both my feet. But unlike other peripheral neuropathy patients, I do not have any tingling or pain in either foot.
I have found considerable relief from accupuncture, namely electrical stimulation through both my legs. I'd say an 80% improvement. Anybody heard of that or have any thoughts about it?

Jump to this post

Hello! (@arlengrossman)

I'm in a similar situation. I've had balance issues for years, going back maybe ten years. They began as brief and only occasional episodes (five minutes, every fourth or fifth day). As I was dealing at the time with mild hypertension, I blamed the episodes on blood pressure fluctuations. As the years passed, hypertension came under control, but my balance worsened: longer episodes, more frequent occurrences. Still, I had no pain, no tingling or numbness, either. Finally, I met with a neurologist one year ago this month (August 2022). He administered an EMG and diagnosed idiopathic sensory-motor peripheral neuropathy. That's where things stand at the moment. Poor balance remains my No. 1 issue. Although the EMG revealed I had numbness in my feet, I'm not so aware of the numbness that I think about as I go about my day. I walk cautiously, carrying a cane if I'm going to unfamiliar places. I made a note of your mentioning acupuncture and an 80% improvement. That's considerable. Are you doing PT, too? Any added medications, prescriptions, or supplements? My neurologist has asked me to try EB-N5, a mega-supplement. (I've received several thoughtful posts warning me of the dangers of too much B-6.) I meet next with my neurologist on 8/8. I plan to ask him about B-6, among other things, also if he thinks I might benefit from acupuncture. Thanks for posting!

Ray (@ray666)

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@sb4ca

I have long motor nerve dysfunction that does not create any type of pain. It does create problems with balance. I cannot for the life of me do a heel/toe walk without falling over. This is different than a short or sensory nerve dysfunction I'd like to point out. Spinal stenosis can also cause weakness without pain. Have you seen a neurologist for nerve testing?

Jump to this post

(@sb4ca)

Wow! I wish I'd seen your post before I made my earlier reply. I would have added that I have cervical spinal stenosis. It had been diagnosed by a different doctor, a neurosurgeon. At the time, he cautioned that the stenosis might have no bearing on my balance difficulties. He offered surgery, but as he said it wasn't a "must," I opted for a wait-and-see approach. I'll meet with this neurosurgeon again in September. I also have no pain, tingling, or burning,; I've only my unreliable balance and wobbly way of walking. Your post has me wondering if it wouldn't make sense to go through with the cervical stenosis this time. Much to think about …

Ray (@ray666)

REPLY
@arlengrossman

I'm curious if anyone else has the issue that I do. I started to get balance problems that seemed to affect both my feet. But unlike other peripheral neuropathy patients, I do not have any tingling or pain in either foot.
I have found considerable relief from accupuncture, namely electrical stimulation through both my legs. I'd say an 80% improvement. Anybody heard of that or have any thoughts about it?

Jump to this post

I have mostly numbness, not traditional "pain." I was diagnosed with small fiber neuropathy--we believe it's both sensory and autonomic. (Small fiber nerves affect sensation, pressure, and temperature, and also control autonomic processes like digestion.)

Small fiber neuropathy isn't supposed to cause actual muscle weakness, but it can impair balance because of well, the numbness, and sometimes I have the sensation of weakness because of the numbness. I used to also get tingling, but it's improved that now my baseline pain is what I call "the absence of sensation."

I'm glad you found some relief with acupunture with the electro-stimulation. It sounds kind of scary, but I tried it once and it really wasn't. I didn't get relief from that specifically, but I did feel better with acupuncture. That, gentle yoga, minimizing gluten (there's some research to suggest there may be a link between gluten sensitivity and idiopathic small fiber neuropathy, but not everyone benefits), and physical therapy focused on graded motor imagery (GMI).

REPLY
@emo

I have mostly numbness, not traditional "pain." I was diagnosed with small fiber neuropathy--we believe it's both sensory and autonomic. (Small fiber nerves affect sensation, pressure, and temperature, and also control autonomic processes like digestion.)

Small fiber neuropathy isn't supposed to cause actual muscle weakness, but it can impair balance because of well, the numbness, and sometimes I have the sensation of weakness because of the numbness. I used to also get tingling, but it's improved that now my baseline pain is what I call "the absence of sensation."

I'm glad you found some relief with acupunture with the electro-stimulation. It sounds kind of scary, but I tried it once and it really wasn't. I didn't get relief from that specifically, but I did feel better with acupuncture. That, gentle yoga, minimizing gluten (there's some research to suggest there may be a link between gluten sensitivity and idiopathic small fiber neuropathy, but not everyone benefits), and physical therapy focused on graded motor imagery (GMI).

Jump to this post

Thanks for sharing your istory. You've clearly informed yourself about your condition, and clearly there is some mystery about it. As I said, I have been fortunate not to have any pain or problems regarding this condition. I started having balance problems about 2 or 3 years ago.
I had heard some positive news about acupuncture helping peripheral neuropathy, so I decided to give it a try. The acupuncturist I worked with felt e-stimulation might help. I felt the e-stimulation used on both legs, and although I felt my legs shaking it was not enough to cause any real pain. To my surprise, after the first session there was a noticeable improvement in my balance. I would estimate I went from 50% balance capability to at least 75-80%. Unfortunately, there was no improvement on subsequent visits, but also no regression. I have continued going every 2 to 3 weeks and haven't noticed any discernable change. I don't know what will happen if I stop the treatment, but so far my insurance covers me for 20 visits a year, so I keep going.

REPLY
@sb4ca

I have long motor nerve dysfunction that does not create any type of pain. It does create problems with balance. I cannot for the life of me do a heel/toe walk without falling over. This is different than a short or sensory nerve dysfunction I'd like to point out. Spinal stenosis can also cause weakness without pain. Have you seen a neurologist for nerve testing?

Jump to this post

My neurologist diagnosed me with the neuropathy and some testing afterwards confirmed nerve problems with my legs and feet. I was fortunate and surprised that after electrical stimulation of my legs by an acupuncturist , there was noticeable improvement of my balance, but further treatments have not changed the situation.

REPLY
@sb4ca

I have long motor nerve dysfunction that does not create any type of pain. It does create problems with balance. I cannot for the life of me do a heel/toe walk without falling over. This is different than a short or sensory nerve dysfunction I'd like to point out. Spinal stenosis can also cause weakness without pain. Have you seen a neurologist for nerve testing?

Jump to this post

By the way, I have the same problem with a heel/toe walk. I can't come close to doing it without falling down.

REPLY
@arlengrossman

I'm curious if anyone else has the issue that I do. I started to get balance problems that seemed to affect both my feet. But unlike other peripheral neuropathy patients, I do not have any tingling or pain in either foot.
I have found considerable relief from accupuncture, namely electrical stimulation through both my legs. I'd say an 80% improvement. Anybody heard of that or have any thoughts about it?

Jump to this post

From what everyone is saying, I'm leaning more than ever toward giving acupuncture a try. I can't see what I've got to lose. Some years ago, before my PN diagnosis, I'd been referred to PT because of what was then thought to be the typical balance deterioration that comes with aging. The therapist gave me a series of TENS sessions. I don't remember these TENS sessions doing much to improve my balance. By the way, I can do a heel/toe walk––but slowly! And it's not a pretty sight. 😀 ––Ray (@ray666)

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@ray666

From what everyone is saying, I'm leaning more than ever toward giving acupuncture a try. I can't see what I've got to lose. Some years ago, before my PN diagnosis, I'd been referred to PT because of what was then thought to be the typical balance deterioration that comes with aging. The therapist gave me a series of TENS sessions. I don't remember these TENS sessions doing much to improve my balance. By the way, I can do a heel/toe walk––but slowly! And it's not a pretty sight. 😀 ––Ray (@ray666)

Jump to this post

My heel/toe walk is not very pretty either Ray 🙃 That's why my PT told me to keep doing it the best you can as you are trying to get the brain to use new pathways for balance and it can take a long time. I probably will never be able to do it without a wall or railing next to me but I keep trying and hoping brain neuroplasticity will do it's part to make it better. Check out this discussion started by Barry @user_che214927:

--- Neuropathy and Brain Neuroplasticity: https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/barry-sheales-australia/

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