is diltiazem 480 mg a day too much. Internet says 580 mg max

Posted by chris230318 @chris230318, Mar 18, 2023

Should I start Sotalol or see if my afib can be controlled with diltiazem? I am 73 year old woman. Otherwise in pretty good health. First afib was six months ago, after a mild case of Covid 19. No heart problems before that. Noticed the problem because heart rate of 100 per minute at a dentist appointment. Primary Care Physician gave me referral to the heart rhythm program. Rhythm doctor immediately recommended cardioversion, which stopped the afib and I was back to normal but continued taking Diltiazem as prescribed.

The same day of my cardioversion that stopped the afib, my same heart rhythm doc told me I should start Amiodarone immediately after the cardioversion had gotten heart rhythm back to normal. When my family went to pick up the Amiodarone prescription, the pharmacist became alarmed and urged my family to warn me that Amiodarone can be very dangerous, harmful and I should get another doc's opinion before taking it. So I didn't take it. I told my heart rhythm doc I was afraid of the side effects. I asked doc to advise me about pros and cons. Doc would not tell me pros and cons. He would not give me written material, even a simple one page info sheet, about amiodarone.

A few months later afib returned. I asked, almost begged, for another cardioversion. My same heart rhythm doc refused to order another cardioversion unless I would start taking Sotalol immediately after the new cardioversion. I asked doc the pros and cons of Sotalol. He said it could have bad side effects, but didn't say what bad effects, and said I would stay in the hospital at least overnight to monitor side effects in case they were too dangerous. I asked heart doc for details on pros and cons of Sotalol. He said I could find lots of info on the internet. So I looked on internet. Next appointment, which was only two days ago, I told him I had looked on internet but have questions because I'm not an expert and I wanted him to advise me pros and cons of Sotalol. His response wat that I should just start Sotalol and that I should stop reading about it on the Internet. Of course that doc behavior is not acceptable. Standard with all docs is they should advise the patient of pros and cons, risks, of various medical recommendations so the patient can decide.

Meanwhile I am taking Diltiazem extended release. My same heart rhythm doc started me at 240 mg per day when I had the cardioversion six months ago (the only cardioversion I have had) when I didn't want to take the Amiodarone the heart doc had prescribed and urged me to take. Although the Diltiazem insert and online says it is extended release , my blood pressure and heart rate go down as desired for the first eight hours and then go back up -- each capsule lasts only about 8 hours -- does not last 24 hours although it claims to last 24 hours extended release.

QUESTION: Have any of you had that experience with extended release Diltiazem that it doesn't last 24 hours and actually lasts only about 8 hours? Pharmasysts told me yup that happens. Pharmasysts told me it's not only Diltiazem but other extended release meds do not always last as long as the manufacturer claims. But my heart rhythm doc is skeptical that it only lasts 8 hours but he prescribed 120 mg diltiazem for me to take 240 in the morning and 120 mg at night. That does not work. Both of them wear off after 8 hours.

QUESTION: Based on your experiences with your doctors and diltiazem, has your doc advised that it's ok to take 480 mg diltiazem daily, such as in three increments: 240 mg in the morning, 120 mg eight hours later, and 120 mg another eight hours later. That's what I have done this last week and it works to keep my heart rate and blood pressure down to acceptable numbers. My heart rhythm Doc said that was ok for a few days but to stop 480 per day because 480 mg was too much. I asked why, when many articles in medical reports on Internet say the maximum dose daily is 580 mg. He just said no. He said 480 would be toxic. By the way, I am a large person -- not obese but 5 feet 8 inches and about 20 pounds overweight. So, I'd like to see if I can keep the bp and hr under control with diltiazem three times a day: 480 mg in morning, then 120 mg eight hours later, and 120 mg eight hours after that.

I am looking for a different doctor to get second opinion for many reasons. In his online report about my appointment with him this week in which he wanted me to start Sotalol and I said I needed him to advise me about pros and cons, in writing, before I would decide about that, and he would'not advise me about specific pros and cons. So in his online report about that he complained that I had spent a lot of time on the Internet reading distractions, and he wrote that I had refused amiodarone and Sotalol that he recommended after I had had cardioversions (yes: plural cardioversions) when the truth is I have had only one cardioversion: the one about six months ago that he ordered. So, I need to get a second opinion and change doctors. So: he write important false information about my cardioversion etc. Also at this last appointment when he was trying to talk me into agreeing to take Sotalol, he told me he didn't blame me for not wanting to take Amiodarone; he said he wouldn't want to take Amiodarone either.

QUESTION: IN the meantime, could you let me know if you have had any problems taking Diltiazem per day 480 mg or up to 580 mg per day,
QUESTION: Also: have you known whether the extended release Diltiazem last shorter than the 24 hours it's supposed to last? mine lasts 8 hours not 24 hours.
QUESTION: Have any of you taken Sotalol and what are the pros and cons for you?

Thank you very much!

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Heart Rhythm Conditions Support Group.

@chris230318

Thank you very much, and yes, I agree that the the comments on this list are not to be taken as medical advice from a competent doctor who knows me and my complete medical history.

I value the input from this group and appreciate their questions and responses. Thanks!

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This page was never claiming to be an alternate to getting a doctor for a problem you may have.
This is a discussion page only to share your issues with all kinds of issues
Anybody who self medicates because of something they read on an online platform is not getting individual care meant for them by a doctor.

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I’m ready to call it quits. There’s no cure for me. Meds are poisoning me. For 20 years I’ve been in all kinds of meds , Electro convulsion treatments for a week and nothing has changed. They told me at the psych ward to do CBT. I have no patience to do that. I’d like to be in hospice care with morphine in me.

Everything hurts mentally and physically. There’s a time when you can’t take it anymore. Where is the joy and happiness I was promised? I feel like vomiting and I’m extremely fatigued . I have diabetes, A mechanical aortic valve replacement , a torn aneurysm in my abdomen , higher blood pressure, high cholesterol levels. I have vertigo, severe mental illness, and a cardiovascular surgeon that laughs at my concern. I don’t know but I’m having a bad day.
The only positive thing in my life is the fact that the former guy was indicted.

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@andytheman

This page was never claiming to be an alternate to getting a doctor for a problem you may have.
This is a discussion page only to share your issues with all kinds of issues
Anybody who self medicates because of something they read on an online platform is not getting individual care meant for them by a doctor.

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Thank you. I agree. And thanks again to all who responded.

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@4sheepiemom

I have frequent PVCs sometimes for days in and and occasional SVT runs ( once every 6 weeks and I can usually “ maneuver my way” out of them. I track both. . Have been on metoprolol for years. My doc switched me to 250 diltiazem and within 24 hours I had 2 runs of SVTs She said just a coincidence but I requested to be switched back . I havre these things but I know they are more nuisance and otherwise I am healthy. But bad experience with diltiazem

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I would have asked you to spend at least another 24 hours, longer if you could stand it, on the initial dose of diltiazem. If your heart is irritable, a mere 24 hours of a new drug isn't likely to free you from all of the irritability. Naturally, we all tell ourselves that the new drug is probably going to work, or we hope it will, and we expect improvement inside of 6-8 hours. Many of them don't work that way. Amiodarone, in case you're not familiar with it, is a 'big hammer' drug that one should hope to only have to take for a few months at most. It is based on iodine, and it is administered initially in a 'loading dose', often of 800mg/day for up to a week, and then the maintenance dose takes over that runs at about half that rate, or less.

Dealing with disorders such as sleep apnea and AF has as its fundamental requirement the ability to live comfortably. Many suffer from distressing palpitations in the chest wall, or they feel brain fog and even more irritable after some time on CPAP therapy for sleep apnea, even when their morning reports say their machines prevented the vast majority of obstructions and flow limitations. Apart from the numbers, for those with AF, and who don't handle the condition well, getting back into NSR is about all they can think about when not eating, sleeping, or showering. So, I understand your comment about the 'bad experience with diltiazem.' For me, amiodarone did the trick, and it held me out of arrhythmia for about five weeks. Maybe diltiazem will still do that for you, but ya gotta give it a fair chance. Just a suggestion.

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I have paroxysmal Afib. My cardiologist recommended taking no more than 5 fast acting 60mg diltiazem a day (300mg total) if I’m in Afib (paroxysmal) and no more than 3 60mg (180mg total) tablets if I’m not. My resting heart rate when not in Afib is 50. I tried taking the 120 mg time release diltiazem capsule at bedtime when I was in Afib and it did not lower my heart rate enough so I now set my alarm to wake up after 4-5 hours to take the fast acting 60 mg capsule. I usually experience Afib 12-15 hours 4-5 times a month. I take an Eliquis at onset and a second if I’m still in Afib 12 hours later. My cardiologist does not like this but accepts it.

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Eliquis does not act quickly. If you are experiencing AF, and take apixaban or any other anti-coagulant (barring injected heparin) after the fact, you are incurring a risk no reasonable health professional would agree that you should take. Yes, the decision is yours, but all it takes is for a tiny clot leaving the left atrial appendage to migrate into the coronary artery or into a brain vessel, blocking them, and your story and interests and habits will change drastically inside of two hours. https://www.drugs.com/tips/apixaban-patient-tips

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