Bronchiectasis what are the stages and symptoms

Posted by raney @raney, Oct 18, 2021

I was diagnosed with bronchiectasis about the time that Covid hit the US and the pulmonologist are overworked, so I have lots of unanswered questions. I also am taking Bisoprolol Fumarate 2.5 mg (a beta blocker) for heart issues. This is the 3rd cardiac med that has been prescribed in hopes of finding something that works with heart and does not interact with pulmonary meds.
Is there away to shorten the time of treatment?
1. Will I have to spend 3 hours 2 X a day for the rest of my life with nebulizer treatments, smart vest, gargles and nasal washes?
2. Is there anyway to shorten the time of nebulizer. (I have been prescribed (a) Levalbuterol which I can not use because it makes breathing more difficult (b) Sodium Chloride 7% (c) Budesonide all by nebulizer.
I use Aerobika and Smart Vest at intervals during nebulizer treatment.

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the MAC & Bronchiectasis Support Group.

Ramey, my Vios nebulizer does an ampule in 19 - 20 minutes.

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@thumperguy

Ramey, my Vios nebulizer does an ampule in 19 - 20 minutes.

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Thank you. I will look at the Vios. I have Pari Sprint. Supposed to replace every 6 months. One last about 2 or 3 months for me.

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@sueinmn

For many of us, the mucus is a forever thing, whether thick or thin. Clear is a very good sign. For others, it indicates a coming flare up.
I have never, in 3 1/2 years, even tried to "get all the mucus" in any session. When I use the 7% saline, I cough for 5-10 minutes - when it subsides, I quit or I too would be at it 3 hours a day. My mucus is always present, but in greater amounts if I am stressed, don't drink enough fluids, have a bout with allergies or asthma...

As for that thick mucus, I have found a direct correlation between the amount of water, broth & herbal tea I drink and thinning it out some. My goal is 64-72 ounces a day. If I miss for one day, it is thick like honey - miss more than that it is like glue. I just brewed up a 16 oz mug of Breathe Easy Tea to have with my early lunch. I will have another with my afternoon break, and water in between. Means a lot of bathroom trips, but that is better than choking on mucus.

What does everyone else do?

Sue
PS I was looking at the Heart Association web site to answer a different question and found something that was in the back of my mind regarding your Afib - beta blockers are not the only available drugs to moderate heart rate (https://www.heart.org/en/health-topics/atrial-fibrillation/treatment-and-prevention-of-atrial-fibrillation/atrial-fibrillation-medications)
"Potassium channel blockers help the heart’s rhythm by slowing down the electrical signals that cause AFib.
Examples may include:
Amiodarone (Cordarone® or Pacerone®)
Sotalol (Betapace®)
Dofetilide"
Perhaps by using one of these you would be able to tolerate levalbuterol as part of you treatment regimen.

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Thanks for the info about fluids. I will work harder to try to consume more. Also thanks for the info on Potassium Channel blockers. I have tried a Calcium Channel blocker (Diltrazem XR) but it did not control the tachycardia. This group has already helped in in knowing that I am not alone and to understand more about the bronchiectasis systems and treatment.

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Raney, I’ve likely commented on this before, nonetheless I discarded use of the percussion vest several months ago having become convinced that it wasn’t contributing significantly to keeping symptoms at bay. My current regimen: 20 minute nebulized 7% saline session twice daily. The 7% seems to be controlling MAC as “advertised.” I’ve been “flare-up” free for nearly two years. Using the “nebbing” time to read diminishes the sense that the time is wasted. (Full disclosure) I’ve long been convinced that I have a “lighter” case of MAC than many others on this forum. For example, I’ve never had to routinely use antibiotics. Following a negative therapeutic reaction to antibiotic treatment of a flare up a couple of years ago I put them on the shelf and left ‘em there. Don

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@thumperguy

Raney, I’ve likely commented on this before, nonetheless I discarded use of the percussion vest several months ago having become convinced that it wasn’t contributing significantly to keeping symptoms at bay. My current regimen: 20 minute nebulized 7% saline session twice daily. The 7% seems to be controlling MAC as “advertised.” I’ve been “flare-up” free for nearly two years. Using the “nebbing” time to read diminishes the sense that the time is wasted. (Full disclosure) I’ve long been convinced that I have a “lighter” case of MAC than many others on this forum. For example, I’ve never had to routinely use antibiotics. Following a negative therapeutic reaction to antibiotic treatment of a flare up a couple of years ago I put them on the shelf and left ‘em there. Don

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Lucky you. Don! I hope you continue to do well on your abbreviated regimen.

You should be able to see how much MAC you have (had) by reading the results of your sputum tests. I assume you have had your sputum tested?

The results will say which bacteria, fungus, etc were found and if it was "few", "moderate " or "many". If it says "many isolated colonies", which is what my test results say about my pseudomonas infection, that is bad news. It means it is growing in many separate locations.

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@rits

Lucky you. Don! I hope you continue to do well on your abbreviated regimen.

You should be able to see how much MAC you have (had) by reading the results of your sputum tests. I assume you have had your sputum tested?

The results will say which bacteria, fungus, etc were found and if it was "few", "moderate " or "many". If it says "many isolated colonies", which is what my test results say about my pseudomonas infection, that is bad news. It means it is growing in many separate locations.

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Thank you about the info re MAC, I will look up previous sputum tests. Also, I am waiting on the final results of one tests now.

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@sueinmn

Wow, check out that Pari Vios "green monster" - or maybe your nebulizer cup. Mine dispenses 4ml of saline or duoneb in about 12 minutes using the Pari LC Plus nebulizer. My old Pari (over 10 years old) took a lot longer, so I replaced it with a new one from Walgreens for about $60. By the way, Pari also has an LC Sprint cup that's supposed to be even faster - I might try it next time. I buy neb supplies on line, and replace mine about every 3 months - cup and tubing.
Sue

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@sueinmn I just switched from the Pari LC Plus neb cup to the LC Sprint...Wow. Cuts the time down to about 6 minutes....and very little medication escapes from the cup as it used to do with the LC Plus. The only difference that I notice is that the 7% seems harsher with the Sprint. (and my cats get a lot less playtime now).

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@alleycatkate

@sueinmn I just switched from the Pari LC Plus neb cup to the LC Sprint...Wow. Cuts the time down to about 6 minutes....and very little medication escapes from the cup as it used to do with the LC Plus. The only difference that I notice is that the 7% seems harsher with the Sprint. (and my cats get a lot less playtime now).

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Thank you for the LC Sprint information. I am looking at ways to reduce the airway clearance time

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@raney. I read your post about time spent doing airway clearance. Seems that you spend an awful lot of time at this. (3 Hours, twice a day) Have you been advised to do that? Can anyone else on this site comment on airway clearance that takes Raney so much time to accomplish? I feel awful saying to you that I now nebulize for about 6 minutes and cough for about 3 minutes. I do this only once a day but then I have a mild case of MAC and Bronchiectasis. I had ordered a flutter valve to try to vibrate the gunk off of the chest walls but found it ineffective. I know that many on this site use Guaifenesin (Musinex) to help relieve mucus. (I don't) But. I would never go without NAC....Just a thought. Here is a link for you to check out the potential benefits.
I googled MAC & NAC ...afraid of getting a cheezy recipe. Although none directly related to MAC, there are so many articles on NAC in relation to lung health, clearance, reduction of exacerbations etc. and mycobacterias...Following is one I found particularly interesting and I post an excerpt from the article: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5084440/ It is entitled N-acetyl-cysteine exhibits potent anti-mycobacterial activity in addition to its know anti-oxidative functions. I personally take NAC 600 mg 2x a day..made by NOW but lately it is not offered by NOW and it seems that NAC is harder to find due to the possibility of FDA classification as a drug. (so the rumor goes). You can still find it but it is getting more difficult. Best of luck to you and wishing you good health and luck on this journey. Kate

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@alleycatkate

@raney. I read your post about time spent doing airway clearance. Seems that you spend an awful lot of time at this. (3 Hours, twice a day) Have you been advised to do that? Can anyone else on this site comment on airway clearance that takes Raney so much time to accomplish? I feel awful saying to you that I now nebulize for about 6 minutes and cough for about 3 minutes. I do this only once a day but then I have a mild case of MAC and Bronchiectasis. I had ordered a flutter valve to try to vibrate the gunk off of the chest walls but found it ineffective. I know that many on this site use Guaifenesin (Musinex) to help relieve mucus. (I don't) But. I would never go without NAC....Just a thought. Here is a link for you to check out the potential benefits.
I googled MAC & NAC ...afraid of getting a cheezy recipe. Although none directly related to MAC, there are so many articles on NAC in relation to lung health, clearance, reduction of exacerbations etc. and mycobacterias...Following is one I found particularly interesting and I post an excerpt from the article: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5084440/ It is entitled N-acetyl-cysteine exhibits potent anti-mycobacterial activity in addition to its know anti-oxidative functions. I personally take NAC 600 mg 2x a day..made by NOW but lately it is not offered by NOW and it seems that NAC is harder to find due to the possibility of FDA classification as a drug. (so the rumor goes). You can still find it but it is getting more difficult. Best of luck to you and wishing you good health and luck on this journey. Kate

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@raney...sorry...here is the excerpt that I found most relevant to our situations with the lung:

N-acetyl-cysteine (NAC) is included in the World Health Organization’s list of essential medicines; a list that details the most relevant medications needed for a basic health system [1]. Acetyl-cysteine is a derivative of cysteine in which an acetyl group is attached to nitrogen. Due to its disulfide reducing activity, NAC is used as a mucolytic agent to promote expectoration [2]. NAC is commonly prescribed as an adjunct therapy in patients with a wide range of respiratory diseases characterized by formation of thick mucus, such as cystic fibrosis [2–4]. At high doses, NAC results in significantly improved small airway function and decreased exacerbation frequency in patients with stable chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) [3, 4]. NAC’s mucolytic activity is also the basis of its use in liquefying sputum samples for the microscopic detection of acid-fast bacilli (AFB) in suspected pulmonary tuberculosis (TB) patients [5]. Furthermore, in both experimental animal models and clinical studies, NAC displays a protective effect on acute liver injury induced by anti-TB drugs in acetaminophen-dependent or independent conditions [6–11]. In patients with type 2 diabetes, NAC holds promise in primary prevention of cardiovascular complications and systemic inflammation [12–14].

In addition to the above clinical applications, NAC has been employed as a potent anti-oxidant in several experimental models of infection and cancer in vitro and in vivo [15–20]. In these settings, NAC serves as a pro-drug to L-cysteine, which is a precursor to the biologic antioxidant glutathione. This anti-oxidant property of NAC is associated with strong anti-inflammatory effects, which have been suggested to inhibit the activation of nuclear factor-κB (NF-κB) with subsequent inhibition of cytokine synthesis [2, 21, 22]. In a mammalian model of Mycobacterium tuberculosis infection, NAC has been shown to diminish TB-driven lung pathology and inflammatory status, as well as to reduce mycobacterial infection loads in the lung [23]. These effects were attributed to the drug’s anti-oxidant properties and immune regulatory activities. Whether NAC limits M. tuberculosis infection in this situation through a direct microbicidal effect on M. tuberculosis was not addressed. Indeed, NAC has been shown to exhibit anti-microbial activity against a number of bacterial pathogens including Pseudomonas aeruginosa, Staphylococcus aureus, Helicobacter pylori, Klebsiella pneumoniae and Enterobacter cloacae [17, 24–26].

In this study, we demonstrate that NAC directly impairs the growth of several species of mycobacteria in vitro independent of its inhibitory effects on the host NADPH oxidase system. This anti-mycobacterial effect was also observed in an experimental model in vivo. Thus, NAC may limit M. tuberculosis infection and disease both through suppression of the host oxidative response and through direct antimicrobial activity. This dual host and pathogen directed function makes the drug an interesting candidate for use as adjunct therapy for tuberculosis.

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