1. < Chronic Pain

Hydrocodone 5-325 3x a day vs Medical Marijuana Option

Posted by knocerine03 @knocerine03, May 28, 2018

Hello. I'm a newbie. Not only to the group, but navigating with my phone! My journey started on Dec 2014 when I fell off a ladder decorating a Xmas tree. I broke all the vertebrae in my back, my ankle and a few times. As was made a trauma patient and prior to discharge complained of a very bad pain in my right hip. It was eventually diagnosed via an stay by the orthopaedic surgeon that "there was no hip issue and I shouldn't make problems where there are no problems." I ended up leaving a job bc of excrutating pain, navigating the system with top orthopaedic surgeons and insurance companies. Almost a year and some later, UofPenn discovered that the pain was coming from a ripped laberal tear. I had the tear repaired in 2016 June, only to have excruciating pain from the back to the hip to the front of the hip to the knee. I obviously had slipped at disc in traction during surgery. I was required to start from the beginning with all hip diagnostic testing which showed it wasn't the hip. Another MRI revealed I had a compressed nerve at the L3/L4 level. The neuro I was seeing happened to send me for a bone density test which now revealed I had Oesteomylitis/Discitis in the area, a rare and deadly infection. I was placed on IV antibiotic therapy for about 6 months. This past April, both Rothman Institute and Penn have conferred that I need 2 infusions before the nerve compressed. I can't tell you the debilitary pain I am in. Becoming worse every day. I still have to go to Hospital of Special Surgery for my 3rd consult, but it doesn't look good. The Hydro that I am on is to the point useless. I need to select a pain management therapy that gives me the ability to functional somewhat normally. Enough relieve to help with daily functions. I have lost my life in what I believe the illness and medical healthcare team has robbed me from. My pain is constant. I'm looking toward finding someone who has experienced moving from opid medical to maraguinia. Are the benefits better? I really don't want to be sleepy or dizzy with current meds or that then of marijuana. Worst fear is weight gain. Best is I want to get up and feel normal. I'm desperate to speak to anyone who has made the change, the kind and dosage recommended and the best configuration. I feel by two physician it might be off me. I'm scared it's not , not affiliated by the negative consequences that comes with it. Will the level and type of marijuana make me more comfortable and less in pain than the opioid, Narco? Hoping for a few folks who have been through this deliminna.

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Chronic Pain Support Group.

Gary, Alumni Mentor | @gman007 | May 28, 2018

@knocerine03, First of all welcome to Connect, I am Gary, one of the volunteer mentors. I am sorry that you are in such horrid pain and I do understand the loss of normalcy. I have had severe abdominal pain, as a result of chronic pancreatitis dx'ed in 2006 and the eventual loss of a third of my pancreas. When I had a distal pacreatectomy, I was not eating and therefore, not healing. I was given Synthetic marijuana and since it was not my first experience with cannabis (shh, it's illegal here and I assume the statute of limitations is less than 30 years), I know that the feelings I had were almost identical to the real version. It definitely enhanced my appetite, but it also did more to relieve my pain and allow me to sleep soundly than opiates have ever done. I imagine your pain may be more severe than mine, but I would still believe that you would get more relief from the medical cannabis than opioids. Of course, I am no Dr., but that is my opinion based on my experience. I have read and listened to what has happened in states where recreational and medical cannabis is available and it sounds as if there are varieties that may make you less sleepy, or less hungry, etc..., but I can't comment from experience. I will certainly be praying that through a change in medication and/or surgical intervention, that you get some relief.
Take care, Gary

i

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mitkat | @mitkat | May 28, 2018

Hello knocerine03. I am so sorry about your debilitating pain. I went on disability about 12 years ago because my back pain forced me to quit working. I was getting a small amount of relief for about 20 years from same opioid you took. I only used 2 to 4 pills per time and didn't take it every day but it finally stopped working all together. I didn't realize that the medication was making me a bit crazy. It also caused me to get osteoporosis (new Mayo finding). Now my pain has increased to the point my life is really suffering (nothing as severe as yours). Cannabis oil is something I can buy legally online so trying that. Gives me some energy, not much help with the pain. So, I got a referral from my Dr. to a local pain clinic. I'm hoping to find relief there. Perhaps you could try that - is there one near you? It's costs $200 here in Minnesota just to get a medical cannabis license. Then the offerings don't compete with the wonderful varietals and edibles in Colorado. I believe you could find some relief there and finding the right pain clinic. I may have to take a trip. Godspeed.

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Jamie Olson | @jamienolson | May 28, 2018

@mitkat and @knocerine03- Welcome to Mayo Clinic Connect!

I'm really sorry both of you are in so much pain. If interested, Mayo has a pain clinic. You can read more about it here, https://www.mayoclinic.org/departments-centers/pain-rehabilitation-center.

Also, I think you may be interested in the following two discussions where Connect members discuss partaking in pain clinics and pain rehab centers:

– Cognitive behavior class, https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/cognitive-behavior-class/
– Pain rehabilitation, https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/pain-rehabilitation-21da8b/

I'm looking forward to hearing from both of you and learning more about your journey. Please keep us updated if you make the switch from Hydrocodone to Medical Marijuana.

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Mentor
Chris Trout, Volunteer Mentor | @artscaping | May 28, 2018

@knocerine03 I am feeling connected to your journey as we have some similarities. And yes, after 13 othopedic/neurological surgeries and lots of opioids, and other debilitating and scary drugs like Ambien, I have now been on a program/protocol of medical marijuana for almost 3 years. Key to my ability to live reasonably well without opioids has been having good marijuana guides, a neurologist who accepts my choice and is a supportive partner. We work together to try to keep one step ahead of the progressive pain and debilitating issues of polyneuropathy, myofascial pain syndrome and SFN (small fiber neuropathy). The medical marijuana industry is a compassionate one. It also is having such phenomenal growth that problems are created because new products are being introduced every week. Let me explain. There are no RX's for MM (medical marijuana). You have to do some research and then find someone to help you through the maze of options and delivery systems. Be ready to experiment and evaluate . Start slowly and progress carefully. Choose products that fit your lifestyle: morning activity, afternoon rest, and pain free sleep. This may include, vaping cartridges with as pure an oil as you can find, topicals that tone down the needle like tingling, edibles that work well as long as you handle the dosage carefully. My daily routine begins with vaping and then moves to tinctures in my tea or coffee. The key here is what the ratio of THC to CBD works best for you. I use a 3:1 tincture, 3 parts CBD, 1 part THC. My topical is also 3:1 but this time it is 3 parts THC to one part CBD. I have not found any 100% CBD oil available everywhere and on line that works for me. It appears that you need some THC to potentiate the benefit of CBD. The other key issue is time. A vape will deliver help with your pain within a few minutes but only last15 or 20 minutes. A tincture can be subliminal or in a beverage and depending on the ratio may take longer to take effect but last several hours. For me, one dropper gives me an easy, comfortable morning. I may repeat this dosage in late afternoon or during the evening. Bedtime for me means some vaping, a tincture dropper and topicals on my hands/feet and bad myofascial knee. Edibles like infused cookies may take 45 minutes to take effect but last the entire afternoon. You must go slowly with edibles. Remember you can always have more but you cannot have less. So....I now have an older gentleman at the dispensary who helps me every time I visit. And one more tip...get a very good vaping battery. Some are pretty shoddy. And remember that I mentioned problems. Here it is: the industry is growing so fast that you can often not find the same products every time you visit. So you are always experimenting. And one final note: two no-nos. Do not use medical marijuana other than a bit of vape on an empty tummy. And number 2....do not drive after medicating. Most of all, be kind to yourself.

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13 replies
lioness | @lioness | May 28, 2018

@knocerine03 Hi I'm lioness from Pa live in Ca now but have a L2 fracture compressed fracture Dr.said my nerves to legs where pinched by fractured so I didn't have any surgery.I use ,which helps me is thigh stretching excersises,Epsom Salts,and I have great faith I asked God to heal me and I've been blessed my groin area doesn't hurt like it use to I'm able to exercise and it's been a blessing for me Dr has me on Tramadol,50 mg I took 6at one time but am down to 1-2 as needed along with an Aleve Mine was in 2005 In sorry you are hurting so much with just 1fracture I was in alot of pain I can't imagine what all your going through .If you want to talk I'm here for you.Blessings Linda

REPLY
Texas Freedom | @oregongirl | May 28, 2018
In reply to @artscaping "@knocerine03 I am feeling connected to your journey as we have some similarities. And yes, after..." + (show)
@artscaping

@knocerine03 I am feeling connected to your journey as we have some similarities. And yes, after 13 othopedic/neurological surgeries and lots of opioids, and other debilitating and scary drugs like Ambien, I have now been on a program/protocol of medical marijuana for almost 3 years. Key to my ability to live reasonably well without opioids has been having good marijuana guides, a neurologist who accepts my choice and is a supportive partner. We work together to try to keep one step ahead of the progressive pain and debilitating issues of polyneuropathy, myofascial pain syndrome and SFN (small fiber neuropathy). The medical marijuana industry is a compassionate one. It also is having such phenomenal growth that problems are created because new products are being introduced every week. Let me explain. There are no RX's for MM (medical marijuana). You have to do some research and then find someone to help you through the maze of options and delivery systems. Be ready to experiment and evaluate . Start slowly and progress carefully. Choose products that fit your lifestyle: morning activity, afternoon rest, and pain free sleep. This may include, vaping cartridges with as pure an oil as you can find, topicals that tone down the needle like tingling, edibles that work well as long as you handle the dosage carefully. My daily routine begins with vaping and then moves to tinctures in my tea or coffee. The key here is what the ratio of THC to CBD works best for you. I use a 3:1 tincture, 3 parts CBD, 1 part THC. My topical is also 3:1 but this time it is 3 parts THC to one part CBD. I have not found any 100% CBD oil available everywhere and on line that works for me. It appears that you need some THC to potentiate the benefit of CBD. The other key issue is time. A vape will deliver help with your pain within a few minutes but only last15 or 20 minutes. A tincture can be subliminal or in a beverage and depending on the ratio may take longer to take effect but last several hours. For me, one dropper gives me an easy, comfortable morning. I may repeat this dosage in late afternoon or during the evening. Bedtime for me means some vaping, a tincture dropper and topicals on my hands/feet and bad myofascial knee. Edibles like infused cookies may take 45 minutes to take effect but last the entire afternoon. You must go slowly with edibles. Remember you can always have more but you cannot have less. So....I now have an older gentleman at the dispensary who helps me every time I visit. And one more tip...get a very good vaping battery. Some are pretty shoddy. And remember that I mentioned problems. Here it is: the industry is growing so fast that you can often not find the same products every time you visit. So you are always experimenting. And one final note: two no-nos. Do not use medical marijuana other than a bit of vape on an empty tummy. And number 2....do not drive after medicating. Most of all, be kind to yourself.

Jump to this post

Knocerine. I am so jealous of you. I had no choice but to move from Oregon. I am living in Texas. There is no such thing as Marijuana here. I have been told there is something that is sold at the pharmacy. TWO problems here. If you get it from the pharmacy, then your insurance company knows you are using it. The other problem, is I could get arrested if I had any on me. It is just ridiculous. They would rather give you narcotics and then pull them from you just at the moment when you were hooked. And, Now the trip down the road to withdrawal. If your state allows Marijuana, then there is NO reason to take heavy duty pills. I used a (I don't know what you call it) Oil filled and on battery operated tool. Gosh, I feel so dumb. My primary doctor put me on the Marijuana. He and I were both tied of me on Morphine. It was taking it toll on me. So here I am with TRAMADOL. For whatever it is worth. I fell twice and had a crushed Vertibra L11. I have RA. I believe I am in remission right now. I have NEVER gone this long without horrible pain. When I broke the L11, I had surgery using the concrete to fill in the fractured vertibra I also asked God to heal me. I knew I was leaving the hospital and would not get any drug help once I left. Our Medical is SO MESSED UP. What happened

REPLY
lioness | @lioness | May 28, 2018
In reply to @artscaping "@knocerine03 I am feeling connected to your journey as we have some similarities. And yes, after..." + (show)
@artscaping

@knocerine03 I am feeling connected to your journey as we have some similarities. And yes, after 13 othopedic/neurological surgeries and lots of opioids, and other debilitating and scary drugs like Ambien, I have now been on a program/protocol of medical marijuana for almost 3 years. Key to my ability to live reasonably well without opioids has been having good marijuana guides, a neurologist who accepts my choice and is a supportive partner. We work together to try to keep one step ahead of the progressive pain and debilitating issues of polyneuropathy, myofascial pain syndrome and SFN (small fiber neuropathy). The medical marijuana industry is a compassionate one. It also is having such phenomenal growth that problems are created because new products are being introduced every week. Let me explain. There are no RX's for MM (medical marijuana). You have to do some research and then find someone to help you through the maze of options and delivery systems. Be ready to experiment and evaluate . Start slowly and progress carefully. Choose products that fit your lifestyle: morning activity, afternoon rest, and pain free sleep. This may include, vaping cartridges with as pure an oil as you can find, topicals that tone down the needle like tingling, edibles that work well as long as you handle the dosage carefully. My daily routine begins with vaping and then moves to tinctures in my tea or coffee. The key here is what the ratio of THC to CBD works best for you. I use a 3:1 tincture, 3 parts CBD, 1 part THC. My topical is also 3:1 but this time it is 3 parts THC to one part CBD. I have not found any 100% CBD oil available everywhere and on line that works for me. It appears that you need some THC to potentiate the benefit of CBD. The other key issue is time. A vape will deliver help with your pain within a few minutes but only last15 or 20 minutes. A tincture can be subliminal or in a beverage and depending on the ratio may take longer to take effect but last several hours. For me, one dropper gives me an easy, comfortable morning. I may repeat this dosage in late afternoon or during the evening. Bedtime for me means some vaping, a tincture dropper and topicals on my hands/feet and bad myofascial knee. Edibles like infused cookies may take 45 minutes to take effect but last the entire afternoon. You must go slowly with edibles. Remember you can always have more but you cannot have less. So....I now have an older gentleman at the dispensary who helps me every time I visit. And one more tip...get a very good vaping battery. Some are pretty shoddy. And remember that I mentioned problems. Here it is: the industry is growing so fast that you can often not find the same products every time you visit. So you are always experimenting. And one final note: two no-nos. Do not use medical marijuana other than a bit of vape on an empty tummy. And number 2....do not drive after medicating. Most of all, be kind to yourself.

Jump to this post

@oregongirl The DR,s are in the pocket of the pharmaceutical companies and Dr,s can't practice medicine the way they want to so we have to do the best we can.Haveing great faith knowing you can trust what God says is the best way when everything else fails give gratitude for his healing. Someplace in the Bible He has given us all we need' to heal the cannabinoid plant is for us to heal us but it's this dumb government , its bucks from pharmaceutical that's keeping us from it Shame on them.Blessings lioness Linda

REPLY
lioness | @lioness | May 28, 2018
In reply to @artscaping "@knocerine03 I am feeling connected to your journey as we have some similarities. And yes, after..." + (show)
@artscaping

@knocerine03 I am feeling connected to your journey as we have some similarities. And yes, after 13 othopedic/neurological surgeries and lots of opioids, and other debilitating and scary drugs like Ambien, I have now been on a program/protocol of medical marijuana for almost 3 years. Key to my ability to live reasonably well without opioids has been having good marijuana guides, a neurologist who accepts my choice and is a supportive partner. We work together to try to keep one step ahead of the progressive pain and debilitating issues of polyneuropathy, myofascial pain syndrome and SFN (small fiber neuropathy). The medical marijuana industry is a compassionate one. It also is having such phenomenal growth that problems are created because new products are being introduced every week. Let me explain. There are no RX's for MM (medical marijuana). You have to do some research and then find someone to help you through the maze of options and delivery systems. Be ready to experiment and evaluate . Start slowly and progress carefully. Choose products that fit your lifestyle: morning activity, afternoon rest, and pain free sleep. This may include, vaping cartridges with as pure an oil as you can find, topicals that tone down the needle like tingling, edibles that work well as long as you handle the dosage carefully. My daily routine begins with vaping and then moves to tinctures in my tea or coffee. The key here is what the ratio of THC to CBD works best for you. I use a 3:1 tincture, 3 parts CBD, 1 part THC. My topical is also 3:1 but this time it is 3 parts THC to one part CBD. I have not found any 100% CBD oil available everywhere and on line that works for me. It appears that you need some THC to potentiate the benefit of CBD. The other key issue is time. A vape will deliver help with your pain within a few minutes but only last15 or 20 minutes. A tincture can be subliminal or in a beverage and depending on the ratio may take longer to take effect but last several hours. For me, one dropper gives me an easy, comfortable morning. I may repeat this dosage in late afternoon or during the evening. Bedtime for me means some vaping, a tincture dropper and topicals on my hands/feet and bad myofascial knee. Edibles like infused cookies may take 45 minutes to take effect but last the entire afternoon. You must go slowly with edibles. Remember you can always have more but you cannot have less. So....I now have an older gentleman at the dispensary who helps me every time I visit. And one more tip...get a very good vaping battery. Some are pretty shoddy. And remember that I mentioned problems. Here it is: the industry is growing so fast that you can often not find the same products every time you visit. So you are always experimenting. And one final note: two no-nos. Do not use medical marijuana other than a bit of vape on an empty tummy. And number 2....do not drive after medicating. Most of all, be kind to yourself.

Jump to this post

@oregongirl It to me sometime to figure what works for me but I think I know now .Since none of what the Dr.prescribed helped alot I had to experiment on myself I don't recommend this but since I'm a retired nurse and know alot about holistic meds I felt comfortable on myself .

REPLY
GailBL, Alumni Mentor | @gailb | May 28, 2018

@knocerine03

Hi, I'm Gail, and I'm extending another welcome to Mayo Connect. I too am a Volunteer Mentor on the Connect site and as such am not a medical professional. I can only offer my support and my experience. I have used CBD, which is a derivative of Marijuana / Cannabis, without the "stoned"/high effect from the THC in marijuana. I used it to help me withdraw from Tramadol, 50 mg, which I had been taking for my back pain and surgery. I'm so sorry to hear of your pain and struggle to be whole again.

First, let me say that I was prescribed hydrocodone for my back and hip pain and took it for a couple of years. It never really helped my pain, but I felt high, so I didn't care as much. I had been having this hip pain off and on for about 20 years. Then a few years ago the pain was there every 3 months, progressing to daily about 5 years ago. Three years ago I was leaning forward to cut some roses, when I suddenly felt extreme fatigue in my right hip and leg. That became constant grinding pain that kept me from going up stairs and walking freely. I still didn't talk to the doctor about it. I finally was forced to see a doctor for my acute and suddenly debilitating pain that put me in a wheelchair 2 years ago. I had an MRI and found I out I had multiple problems, including that my L5-S1 was impinging on my spinal cord, and my L4 was herniated and had slipped onto my L5. I had spondylitis, stenosis, degenerative disk disease, a compound fracture of my C7, and radiculopathy. I had outpatient surgery called a laminectomy to remove part of my L5 disk to relieve the pressure on my lumbar spine December 22, 2016.

The relief of pain on my left side was immediate. I was so grateful for that. However, the pain on the right side from my L4 continued. I continued to take medication for the pain, but I had trouble walking and could hardly go up steps anyway. I was prescribed Tramadol, 50mg, 4 times a day. It is a synthetic opioid that really helped me with the pain. I took it 4 times a day. My surgeon said I would need major surgery to repair the L4, so he wanted me to try other ways to relieve the pain. I had 2 rounds of physical therapy, acupuncture, massage, and nothing helped. I explored stem cell therapy. Then I read about ART, Active Release Technique, on the Mayo Connect community. I decided to try it and within 3 weeks of treatment, my pain was almost completely gone. I was very happy. I go monthly now for a tweak.

I decided to stop my Tramadol, and used CBD during the time as I reduced one pill a day for 3 weeks, then another pill reduction for 4 weeks, then I stayed at 2 pills a day for another 4 weeks using the CBD to help me with the anxiety and brain fog I felt. It really helped me to be able to keep reducing my pills. I broke my last pills in half and continued to take half in the morning and half in the evening. I now only take half a pill when I have pain. I'm moving right now, so I've managed to hurt my back again unfortunately. I go for an ART treatment tomorrow.

It sounds as if your problems are worse than mine. I don't know if ART is appropriate for you. I recommend that you Google, Active Release Technique, and read about it. If you think it might help, then look for a practitioner in your area. Chiropractors are the ones who have gotten this training. Research who has the most training and certifications for different aspects of ART. Before deciding to do any treatment, show your MRI to the ART practitioner and be certain you talk with your doctor about what you're thinking about doing.

It is possible that CBD or THD/marijuana could help your pain level. Researchers have found that neither CBD nor THD are addictive. However, THC will make you feel high. Since we are all different, you may be able to function just fine with the high it produces, or you may not function well when you are high. I don't know if you will be helped by the marijuana, CBD, or ART, but I believe they are worth trying as long as your doctor agrees and it's legal in your state. I am including 3 links so you can learn more about the marijuana/CBD option. I'll post them separately. Please let us know how things are going for you. I'm hoping the best for you.

Gail
Volunteer Mentor

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2 replies
GailBL, Alumni Mentor | @gailb | May 28, 2018

@knocerine03

For those who are interested in using CBD/marijuana as a pain or anxiety reliever, here are two websites that provide excellent quality products and one has an extensive educational programs that are free. One series of the education programs helps each person determine their own dosage for their problems.

1. http://www.cbdlivingwater.org — has good products. I used the Living Water to help me withdraw from Tramadol.

2. https://mjstherapeutics.org — this is where I purchased my CBD Daily tincture. It's an excellent quality product and they have others you can order online.

3. https://healer.com/about-us/ educational programs. I need to take their education programs and determine the correct dosage for my arthritis and radiculopathy pain.

These are good sites with reliable products and information. I have tested these links now and they work.

Gail
Volunteer Mentor

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