1. < Heart Rhythm Conditions

How did you wean off Metoprolol?

Posted by kenny48 @kenny48, May 11, 2018

Hi,
I've been taking both flecainide and metoprolol now for eight years, as a prophylactic for Afib. I recently moved to North Carolina and have a new Cardiologist. Have had a lot of PVC's this past two months, and had to wear a heart monitor for an entire month. He said that although I had a lot of PVC's I didn't have even one PAC! He also noted that my BPM was low in the low fifties most of the time. He asked why I was taking metropolol. I told him that the only thing my previous doctor had said was " it makes the flecainide, work better". He suggested I stop taking the metoprolol to see how I do without it. Unfortunately I read a lot of information on the internet. I read that it can be very dangerous to stop taking it. I take 25 mg metoprolol succinate, split in half. Once in the morning with my flecainide, and then again in the evening for a second dose. He wants me to take half in the morning and skip the evening dose for two days, then stop entirely. Has anyone else stopped taking this drug in a similar manner? I'm worried that the cut off is too soon.

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patidallas22 | @patidallas22 | Mar 28, 2020
In reply to @soliloquized "Although one cannot rule-out that these pains and side effects weren't caused by medications, people that..." + (show)
@soliloquized

Although one cannot rule-out that these pains and side effects weren't caused by medications, people that take Placebos, i.e. Sugar Pills that the patient think is medication, causes some patients to experience side effect when, in fact, there is nothing in the Placebo to cause it. I'm taking a ton of medication, seizures, Afib, Cholesterol, Blood Pressure (I lost weight, the pressure is down, but the diuretic effect reduces the volume of retained fluids, so I elected, with the Doctor's approval, to remain on it), etc. If I read the side effects, I'm sure I could correlate something I experience to the medication. But it doesn't mean it's actually from the medication.

Placebo Contrasted Side Effects is a good way to determine the side effects of a drug, yet I cannot find a handy example. But when a Drug compared to Placebo trials are done, it's interesting the things that people taking the Placebo report. Say 12% of the Drug Group experiences knee pain and 10% of the Placebo Group does as well. It's not likely that 12% of the eventual patients to receive Metoprolol will experience knee pain, maybe 2%, but even that is generalization since the Placebo Group didn't receive anything to cause it, just that 10% of the Placebo Group noted knee pain.

I'd always look for a wider variance in Drug to Placebo Groups to start to seriously believe that the effects may actually be caused by the Drug. If the Drug Group reported something at 15%, and the Placebo Group reported it at 7%, there's a good chance the Drug is causing the effect. Periodically, sometimes the Drug Group reports a lower percentage of Side Effects than the Placebo Group.

And there are Pre-Market and Post-Market Studies. Once released, Side Effects are reported, and sometimes, they are ludicrously silly, something that most people cannot possibly see a correlation between the Medication and the Effect, but they are, nevertheless, recorded as Side Effects.

At some point, many of us need to decide if the Side Effect or higher blood pressure, racing heart, tension, etc., is worse. Sometimes clearly the Side Effect must go, other times, one learns to live with it. In all cases, talk to your Doctor and consult your Pharmacist, sometimes the Pharmacist knows much more than the Doctor on the Medication.

Jump to this post

Two years ago I did some CrossFit and my shoulder started hurting, I eventually stopped CrossFit due to the pain. I went to PT for six months but as time went on, all my joints started hurting, knees, elbows, other shoulder etc. the whole time I think I’m getting early arthritis or something. Never once did I even consider my blood pressure medicine until my sister said could it be that? I look up the side effects for the first time and sure enough it was on the list. We change me to another bp pill (Toporol) in December and all my joint pain is gone. I only wish it was in my head. Now the pain in my side started within a month of taking the Toporol. My doctor does two CT scans and nothing can be found so I’m thinking, omg could it be a side effect?? Not once had I considered that until the CT ruled out other things. I thought it was a kidney stone based on location. I was asking if anyone had that side effect cause I’m in disbelief that I’m so sensitive to these meds. I’m also allergic to penicillin but that’s probably in my head too. I’ve been off Toporol now for a couple of weeks but the pain is still there so maybe it is something else the doctor can’t find. 🤦🏼‍♀️

REPLY
1 reply
AFRobin | @afrobin | Mar 29, 2020

Hello Patidallas, I am very glad to have read your post as it brings to light my own experience. For about 5 years now, since I started taking BP meds, I have been 'arthritic'...or so I thought...with stiff and achy joints.But I never made the correlation... Getting up from a chair is somewhat uncomfortable. Picking up my grandchild is as well. For the past few days I have stopped my BP medication and the 'arthritic' discomfort has gone away...
It's not a great idea to stop BP meds without one's doctor's authorization and I would never encourage anyone to do so as it puts one at risk of having a stroke or heart attack. My BP is now 160/101. Not good!
Why did I stop the BP meds (Candesartan)? I was reading about Covid and discovered that many BP meds contain ACE2. Quote from a reputable source: 'The COVID-19 virus (also known as SARS-CoV-2) is known to use ACE2 for entry into target cells.' Scientists have discovered that some BP meds cause the body to be open to the proliferation of the COVID-19 virus. Here is the report: I tried to attach it but it won't attach. You can google: Canadian Cardiovascular Society Guidance from the CCS Covid-19 Rapid Response team.
Because of this alarming news and because I have Covid-19 symptoms, I sent an email to my cardiologist asking to change my medication to just a pure diuretic or a drug that is not on one of the lists and he wrote back that there will need to be more formal, long term testing. He would not change my medication..so I stopped taking the meds. I am waiting for an appointment with my new GP in a few days to ask for another medication.
I do have the classic Covid-19 symptoms and have been sick for 13 days with 'the worst flu of my life' which may end up being just that. I was tested this week and am waiting for the results. I wanted to see if this sickness suddenly improves once off the BP meds. As it turns out, I no longer have a low grade fever and the shortness of breath is somewhat better. My cough is much better. Is it just my body's ability to heal or is there an improvement because I stopped the BP medication...or both?
Thank you for sharing, Patidallas!

REPLY
3 replies
AFRobin | @afrobin | Mar 29, 2020

Hello Kenny48, Maybe you could go the 'lifestyle route' to cure or control your Afib and avoid meds like I did. Years ago I suffered from the worst case of Afib the cardiologist had ever seen. I was put on beta blockers for almost 2 years and felt horrible on them. Unfortunately for me, it took such a high dose to keep the flips and thumps every few seconds, air hunger and faint feeling under control. But the doctor told me that such a high dose of sotalol could cause heart block and to try to lower it. Even lowering it a bit caused my heart to flip out...every few beats so I could not reduce the drug. I did some reading and discovered that cardio exercise where I pushed my heart, could help. I joined a gym and went every morning, 6 days a week. Within a month, I was able to get my meds down to ....zero! I kept up the exercise routine for several more months and felt fantastic to be off the beta blocker with no Afib. I went back to the cardiologist who said that the Afib would be back but to never ever again in my life take decongestant medication (ephedrine), coffee, tea, alcohol, chocolate, too much sugar, be near smokers or take any stimulant such as the freezing at the dentist's.
Here I am over 25 years later and still Afib free! I never ever drink caffeine coffee and never drink alcohol. To this day, if I have a chocolate dessert, for example, I may feel a blip or two. That's warning enough for me and I steer clear of any stimulants for a long while.
Btw, the cardiologist told me back then that he only medicates 1 in 10 patients. He only puts patients on beta blockers IF the condition interferes with their daily functioning; IF they have to take big breaths all the time to get enough oxygen...IF they feel dizzy or faint when the heart beat flips and IF they feel weak during episodes. Maybe you don't need beta blockers at all...
From what I have read...in litigation mad USA, doctors are afraid of being sued and will medicate more people than in Canada. That's apparently why Americans are the biggest Big Pharma clients in the world. If I were you, I would ask the doctor, "If you were me, what would you do?"
My 69 year old husband who has had very high cholesterol since his twenties, will not take statins because of the horrible side effects and few benefits and his doctor who was obliged to recommend them, quietly agreed. His triglyceride levels and C-reactive protein are excellent btw. But that's another whole topic. The point is that doctors are obliged to over medicate or if something were to happen to a patient, they could be blamed and lose their license...and Big Pharma would be right there in court wielding the axe. A doctor friend confirmed that they MUST toe the Big Pharma line or else...
I think you can with the doctor's guidance, take charge of your own condition. And like me, you may be able to get off beta blockers and even other meds if you go the lifestyle route.

REPLY
1 reply
mayofeb2020 | @mayofeb2020 | Mar 29, 2020
In reply to @afrobin "Hello Patidallas, I am very glad to have read your post as it brings to light..." + (show)
@afrobin

Hello Patidallas, I am very glad to have read your post as it brings to light my own experience. For about 5 years now, since I started taking BP meds, I have been 'arthritic'...or so I thought...with stiff and achy joints.But I never made the correlation... Getting up from a chair is somewhat uncomfortable. Picking up my grandchild is as well. For the past few days I have stopped my BP medication and the 'arthritic' discomfort has gone away...
It's not a great idea to stop BP meds without one's doctor's authorization and I would never encourage anyone to do so as it puts one at risk of having a stroke or heart attack. My BP is now 160/101. Not good!
Why did I stop the BP meds (Candesartan)? I was reading about Covid and discovered that many BP meds contain ACE2. Quote from a reputable source: 'The COVID-19 virus (also known as SARS-CoV-2) is known to use ACE2 for entry into target cells.' Scientists have discovered that some BP meds cause the body to be open to the proliferation of the COVID-19 virus. Here is the report: I tried to attach it but it won't attach. You can google: Canadian Cardiovascular Society Guidance from the CCS Covid-19 Rapid Response team.
Because of this alarming news and because I have Covid-19 symptoms, I sent an email to my cardiologist asking to change my medication to just a pure diuretic or a drug that is not on one of the lists and he wrote back that there will need to be more formal, long term testing. He would not change my medication..so I stopped taking the meds. I am waiting for an appointment with my new GP in a few days to ask for another medication.
I do have the classic Covid-19 symptoms and have been sick for 13 days with 'the worst flu of my life' which may end up being just that. I was tested this week and am waiting for the results. I wanted to see if this sickness suddenly improves once off the BP meds. As it turns out, I no longer have a low grade fever and the shortness of breath is somewhat better. My cough is much better. Is it just my body's ability to heal or is there an improvement because I stopped the BP medication...or both?
Thank you for sharing, Patidallas!

Jump to this post

This is a tweet from Harvard health regarding hypertension medication and covid 10: quote..

I heard that certain blood pressure medicines might worsen symptoms of COVID-19. Should I stop taking my medication now just in case I do get infected? Should I stop if I develop symptoms of COVID-19?

You are referring to angiotensin converting enzyme (ACE) inhibitors and angiotensin receptor blockers (ARBs), two types of medications used primarily to treat high blood pressure (hypertension) and heart disease. Doctors also prescribe these medicines for people who have protein in their urine, a common problem in people with diabetes.

At this time, the American Heart Association (AHA), the American College of Cardiology (ACC), and the Heart Failure Society of America (HFSA) strongly recommend that people taking these medications should continue to do so, even if they become infected.

Here's how this concern got started. Researchers doing animal studies on a different coronavirus (the SARS coronavirus from the early 2000s) found that certain sites on lung cells called ACE-2 receptors appeared to help the SARS virus enter the lungs and cause pneumonia. ACE inhibitor and ARB drugs raised ACE-2 receptor levels in the animals.

Could this mean people taking these drugs are more susceptible to COVID-19 infection and are more likely to get pneumonia?

The reality today:

Human studies have not confirmed the findings in animal studies.
Some studies suggest that ACE inhibitors and ARBs may reduce lung injury in people with other viral pneumonias. The same might be true of pneumonia caused by the COVID-19 virus.
Stopping your ACE inhibitor or ARB could actually put you at greater risk of complications from the infection, since it's likely that your blood pressure will rise and heart problems would get worse.
The bottom line: The AHA, ACC, and HFSA strongly recommend continuing to take ACE inhibitor or ARB medications, even if you get sick with COVID-19.... Unquote

I think if you are concerned about your meds,please check with your doctor first before you stop taking it.

REPLY
AFRobin | @afrobin | Mar 29, 2020

I have read about this and was concerned because I do have Covid symptoms...or the worst flu + bronchitis I have ever had in my life, was exposed to someone returning from overseas who was coughing and am awaiting test results. I contacted my cardiologist and he said basically what is written above and that he would not prescribe just diuretics or some other safer BP drug. I understand that it is impossible for doctors to go up against Big Pharma without serious repercussions.
So I decided to take a risk of stroke or heart attack and stop the ARB drug I am on (Candesartin) and my symptoms are a bit better but nothing dramatic so far. I have just started taking 3x per day a 'natural' product BP Esssentials by Julian Whitaker, a Canadian product that is Hawthorne Extract and Fish Protein Powder. It's better than nothing...and we shall see if my BP comes down...because, of course it is up to 160/100.
One interesting thing that I definitely notice is that I am no longer stiff or achy when I get up from being seated or get up in the morning or lift up my grandchild etc..
I think a major diet and much more activity is necessary to get my BP down...and hopefully avoid taking any BP drug.

REPLY
2 replies
Moderator
Colleen Young, Connect Director | @colleenyoung | Mar 29, 2020
In reply to @afrobin "Hello Patidallas, I am very glad to have read your post as it brings to light..." + (show)
@afrobin

Hello Patidallas, I am very glad to have read your post as it brings to light my own experience. For about 5 years now, since I started taking BP meds, I have been 'arthritic'...or so I thought...with stiff and achy joints.But I never made the correlation... Getting up from a chair is somewhat uncomfortable. Picking up my grandchild is as well. For the past few days I have stopped my BP medication and the 'arthritic' discomfort has gone away...
It's not a great idea to stop BP meds without one's doctor's authorization and I would never encourage anyone to do so as it puts one at risk of having a stroke or heart attack. My BP is now 160/101. Not good!
Why did I stop the BP meds (Candesartan)? I was reading about Covid and discovered that many BP meds contain ACE2. Quote from a reputable source: 'The COVID-19 virus (also known as SARS-CoV-2) is known to use ACE2 for entry into target cells.' Scientists have discovered that some BP meds cause the body to be open to the proliferation of the COVID-19 virus. Here is the report: I tried to attach it but it won't attach. You can google: Canadian Cardiovascular Society Guidance from the CCS Covid-19 Rapid Response team.
Because of this alarming news and because I have Covid-19 symptoms, I sent an email to my cardiologist asking to change my medication to just a pure diuretic or a drug that is not on one of the lists and he wrote back that there will need to be more formal, long term testing. He would not change my medication..so I stopped taking the meds. I am waiting for an appointment with my new GP in a few days to ask for another medication.
I do have the classic Covid-19 symptoms and have been sick for 13 days with 'the worst flu of my life' which may end up being just that. I was tested this week and am waiting for the results. I wanted to see if this sickness suddenly improves once off the BP meds. As it turns out, I no longer have a low grade fever and the shortness of breath is somewhat better. My cough is much better. Is it just my body's ability to heal or is there an improvement because I stopped the BP medication...or both?
Thank you for sharing, Patidallas!

Jump to this post

Hi @afrobin, The Canadian Cardiovascular Society (CCS) is giving the same recommendation as your doctor and the information that @mayofeb2020 quoted from the American Heart Association (AHA), the American College of Cardiology (ACC), and the Heart Failure Society of America (HFSA).

Here is the statement from CCS: https://www.ccs.ca/images/Images_2020/CCS_CHFS_statement_regarding_COVID_EN.pdf

"COVID-19 and concerns regarding use of ACEi/ARB/ARNi medications for heart
failure or hypertension
The Canadian Cardiovascular Society and the Canadian Heart Failure Society
strongly discourage the discontinuation of guideline directed medical therapy
(GDMT) involving Angiotensin Converting Enzyme Inhibitors (ACEi),
Angiotensin Receptor Blockers (ARB) or Angiotensin Receptor Neprilysin
Inhibitors (ARNi) in hypertensive or heart failure patients as a result of the
COVID-19 pandemic.

Cessation of these drugs in stable patients can lead to
uncontrolled hypertension and increased hospitalizations for heart failure with an
unnecessary increase in health care utilization, straining our valuable inpatient
hospital resources. Although preclinical data has shown that the COVID-19 virus (also
known as SARS-CoV-2), uses the SARS-COV receptor angiotensin converting enzyme
(ACE) 2 for entry into target cells, there is NO clinical evidence at this time to support
withdrawal of these agents. Please continue GDMT.

Robin, I know that you are concerned about the balance of power sitting with pharmaceutical producers and you are right to question the prescribing habits of your doctor and to determine with your medical professionals what is right for you. Please keep in mind that drugs can save lives and help people manage chronic conditions and enable people to have a improved quality of life. What is right for one person may not be right for another. Hence professional associations and societies produce guidelines based on population numbers for doctors to adapt to the needs of their patients individually.

All,
At this time, it is recommended to continue taking heart medications as prescribed. Here's another great article from Mayo Clinic News Network
- Expert Alert: Have heart disease? Protect your health during the COVID-19 pandemic https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/expert-alert-have-heart-disease-protect-your-health-during-the-covid-19-pandemic/

I wish everyone to stay heart healthy during these trying times, and do your best to avoid needing to go to the hospital for a cardiac event.

REPLY
AFRobin | @afrobin | Mar 29, 2020

Agreed! And I am fully aware of the potential consequences of stopping BP meds. And that is why I made sure to mention those potential consequences. But since I likely have Covid, having been exposed to it and having all the classic symptoms, I am faced with another risk factor, also potentially serious. My cardiologist agreed with the report stating that he did not recommend stopping the BP meds. Not enough testing has been done at this point. There have to be human trials etc.. We shall see down the road what comes of it.

REPLY
cdupont1234 | @cdupont1234 | Mar 31, 2020
In reply to @afrobin "I have read about this and was concerned because I do have Covid symptoms...or the worst..." + (show)
@afrobin

I have read about this and was concerned because I do have Covid symptoms...or the worst flu + bronchitis I have ever had in my life, was exposed to someone returning from overseas who was coughing and am awaiting test results. I contacted my cardiologist and he said basically what is written above and that he would not prescribe just diuretics or some other safer BP drug. I understand that it is impossible for doctors to go up against Big Pharma without serious repercussions.
So I decided to take a risk of stroke or heart attack and stop the ARB drug I am on (Candesartin) and my symptoms are a bit better but nothing dramatic so far. I have just started taking 3x per day a 'natural' product BP Esssentials by Julian Whitaker, a Canadian product that is Hawthorne Extract and Fish Protein Powder. It's better than nothing...and we shall see if my BP comes down...because, of course it is up to 160/100.
One interesting thing that I definitely notice is that I am no longer stiff or achy when I get up from being seated or get up in the morning or lift up my grandchild etc..
I think a major diet and much more activity is necessary to get my BP down...and hopefully avoid taking any BP drug.

Jump to this post

Sounds good, I too am weaning myself off of Metropolol 25 mg twice per day and Sandoz Levetiracetam 500 mg twice per day.. I had lower back pain of 10 on a scale of 1 to 10. I cut it in half twice per day and back pain went to a 5. My mind was not as dull and I could think properly again but not as sharp as before i was put on this drug by the Cardiologist. My Neurologist suggested i try this approach and he was correct about the side effects and said I should cut back slowly. I have cut back the medication over a 6 week period.

The effect of this drug on the mental capacity reduction is quite dramatic. I then cut the medication to just once per day at 12.5 mg in the evening.only. My mind has gone back so I can now do mental work again during the day. As an engineer that is quite significant.

REPLY
1 reply
AFRobin | @afrobin | Mar 31, 2020
In reply to @cdupont1234 "Sounds good, I too am weaning myself off of Metropolol 25 mg twice per day and..." + (show)
@cdupont1234

Sounds good, I too am weaning myself off of Metropolol 25 mg twice per day and Sandoz Levetiracetam 500 mg twice per day.. I had lower back pain of 10 on a scale of 1 to 10. I cut it in half twice per day and back pain went to a 5. My mind was not as dull and I could think properly again but not as sharp as before i was put on this drug by the Cardiologist. My Neurologist suggested i try this approach and he was correct about the side effects and said I should cut back slowly. I have cut back the medication over a 6 week period.

The effect of this drug on the mental capacity reduction is quite dramatic. I then cut the medication to just once per day at 12.5 mg in the evening.only. My mind has gone back so I can now do mental work again during the day. As an engineer that is quite significant.

Jump to this post

I suggest that you get more exercise, preferably aerobic if you can. Cut out all stimulants including coffee and alcohol. Even on morning coffee can get your heart going off track. It worked for me and I am 25 years free of a very serious case of Afib.

REPLY
kancha | @kancha | Mar 31, 2020
In reply to @afrobin "Hello Kenny48, Maybe you could go the 'lifestyle route' to cure or control your Afib and..." + (show)
@afrobin

Hello Kenny48, Maybe you could go the 'lifestyle route' to cure or control your Afib and avoid meds like I did. Years ago I suffered from the worst case of Afib the cardiologist had ever seen. I was put on beta blockers for almost 2 years and felt horrible on them. Unfortunately for me, it took such a high dose to keep the flips and thumps every few seconds, air hunger and faint feeling under control. But the doctor told me that such a high dose of sotalol could cause heart block and to try to lower it. Even lowering it a bit caused my heart to flip out...every few beats so I could not reduce the drug. I did some reading and discovered that cardio exercise where I pushed my heart, could help. I joined a gym and went every morning, 6 days a week. Within a month, I was able to get my meds down to ....zero! I kept up the exercise routine for several more months and felt fantastic to be off the beta blocker with no Afib. I went back to the cardiologist who said that the Afib would be back but to never ever again in my life take decongestant medication (ephedrine), coffee, tea, alcohol, chocolate, too much sugar, be near smokers or take any stimulant such as the freezing at the dentist's.
Here I am over 25 years later and still Afib free! I never ever drink caffeine coffee and never drink alcohol. To this day, if I have a chocolate dessert, for example, I may feel a blip or two. That's warning enough for me and I steer clear of any stimulants for a long while.
Btw, the cardiologist told me back then that he only medicates 1 in 10 patients. He only puts patients on beta blockers IF the condition interferes with their daily functioning; IF they have to take big breaths all the time to get enough oxygen...IF they feel dizzy or faint when the heart beat flips and IF they feel weak during episodes. Maybe you don't need beta blockers at all...
From what I have read...in litigation mad USA, doctors are afraid of being sued and will medicate more people than in Canada. That's apparently why Americans are the biggest Big Pharma clients in the world. If I were you, I would ask the doctor, "If you were me, what would you do?"
My 69 year old husband who has had very high cholesterol since his twenties, will not take statins because of the horrible side effects and few benefits and his doctor who was obliged to recommend them, quietly agreed. His triglyceride levels and C-reactive protein are excellent btw. But that's another whole topic. The point is that doctors are obliged to over medicate or if something were to happen to a patient, they could be blamed and lose their license...and Big Pharma would be right there in court wielding the axe. A doctor friend confirmed that they MUST toe the Big Pharma line or else...
I think you can with the doctor's guidance, take charge of your own condition. And like me, you may be able to get off beta blockers and even other meds if you go the lifestyle route.

Jump to this post

Can you tell what heart exercises you are taking?

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