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What if this prevents cancer from becoming resistant?
I saw a thread about half-dose medications.
Guys, what do you think about whether resistance can be avoided? Read below.
Another option is to use different combinations of ADT and lutamide. For example, one month is ADT without lutamide, the second month is ADT with lutamide, the third month is lutamide without ADT, the fourth month is neither ADT nor lutamide, and then the cycle starts over again, so as not to repeat the previous cycle (the combinations would be reversed).
I had this thought, perhaps it's naive, but for some reason my intuition told me exactly this. What do you think?
In other words, varying the medications is necessary to avoid resistance. I've heard of guys who are still alive for 30 years; maybe they did exactly this?
I voiced this thought to my oncologist, and he said it wouldn't work with high Glyson levels.
At that moment, I thought about resistance as cancer adapting to low testosterone levels. The cells change and no longer respond to low testosterone.
And if you really want to "let the cancer swing," you can try to keep testosterone levels fluctuating rather than staying steady, and change the ADT + Lutamide combination depending on PSA growth. For example, if PSA growth is significant, ADT + Lutamide is taken for a month; if PSA growth is moderate, Lutamide alone is taken; if PSA growth is low, ADT alone is taken; and if PSA growth is not observed, the duration of Lutamide-only treatment is extended (2 months instead of 1 month). In any case, the method is based on the fact that we don't "create" a wall for the cancer, but rather a swing when it doesn't have time to adapt (testosterone levels fluctuate, but we don't allow it to fully utilize them with the help of lutamide).
I want to try this on myself, but fear holds me back. But who knows, maybe this method works.
Why do I think this method might work for those with a PSA level of almost 0 and whose cells have not yet become resistant to cancer?
Argument 1: If cells are still dependent on testosterone, they will respond to ADT and lutamide when drug therapy is resumed.
Argument 2: By changing combinations and increasing testosterone levels, we prevent cancer from becoming resistant because we are changing the "rules of the game" and not dealing with cells that are no longer responsive to ADT and lutamide.
Argument 3: By repeating combinations in a cycle (ADT and lutamide, ADT only, lutamide only), we maintain a basic level of protection by closely monitoring PSA levels, which is an indicator that resistance is not developing.
Argument 4: Cancer has little time to "start firing." A new combination will either lower testosterone (ADT) or dampen the ignition.
Argument 5: It's no secret that they're making money off us, and the higher the stage, the more money they make. But they can make much more money if resistance develops (medicine is a business), and perhaps that's why ADT and lutamide inevitably lead to the development of resistance! What if we take our luck by the balls and say no to a society in which someone profits by keeping silent about the easy way out (when registration doesn't occur)
And finally, if the cancer becomes resistant, then we're done for, and we need to avoid it at all costs to keep the cells sensitive to hormones.
What do you think, guys? Is it risky?
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@denis76
Your PSA is considered undetectable if it’s <.1. You should count the amount of time since then.
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1 Reaction@jeffmarc
0.1 - July 2025
0.04 - November 2025
0.02 - May 2026
7 month? Correct?
Why does it (PSA) fall so slowly, are bad cells dying?
@denis76 Maybe, but at least they're going dormant and not reproducing. Either way, it's good.
If you don't mind sharing, what country doesn't allow Erleada yet? I Know it's had regulatory approval in the U.S., Canada, UK, EU etc for about 8 years (though it was just coming into common use in Canada in 2021, when I was diagnosed).
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1 Reaction@northoftheborder
russia
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1 Reaction@denis76
Since you were .1 in July, Went down so much by November I would consider August or September the starting date of undetectable.
If you have radiation, it falls more slowly. If you have surgery, it usually falls right away, Within six or eight weeks.
It does take time for the cells to die after radiation because they have to try to divide and then they die.
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1 ReactionSo, many won't like what I'm writing, but it seems to be true.
I went to my doctor yesterday, and he said roughly the same thing dear @northoftheborder said, and I must say, it's terrible for a certain category of patients.
If you had stage 4 cancer with a large lesion/high Gleason score and high PSA levels (plus multiple metastases in lymph nodes, bones, etc.), then stopping ADT (remaining on lutamide alone) is tantamount to suicide. Hormone-dependent cancer (as soon as testosterone rises) will immediately begin to progress rapidly. In other words, you can't "tear the door" off ADT—you have to keep it closed constantly.
But for those with a small lesion, low Gleason score, and no metastases, stopping ADT is an uncertain option.
Good luck to all of us! I was very upset yesterday and stared blank for hours. There's almost no hope of avoiding resistance.
I shake everyone's hands in this thread. We fight while we can, guys!
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2 ReactionsIt seems that all medications eventually lose their effectiveness. I just finished 18 months of Orgovyx and it seems so far that my cancer has not yet become resistant. Some oncologists give "holidays," stopping ADT for a period of time until PSA rises and a few use "bipolar" therapy of alternating ADT with testosterone supplementation, creating a sort of "whiplash" to shock the cancer cells. You may want to do some research on these and discuss with your oncologist. http://www.pcri.org has a helpful video on the use of intermittent ADT therapy.
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2 Reactions@denis76 I think your doc is correct, but becoming castrate resistant is not inevitable.
Search the forum for ‘estradiol’, or ‘’Dr Weisserug’.
Jeff Marchi posted a conversation he had with the good doctor about this very topic…it’s very revealing ( all about suppressing rogue clones) and hopefully, encouraging. Best,
Phil
@heavyphil
Like this?
https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/adt-vs-estradiol/
@denis76
Sorry to hear you are in the same boat I am with probably lifetime ADT. I know I would really like to stop it, but it could shorten my life and it’s not worth it. Yes, there are a lot of side effects but the fatigue problem has never hit me so I can live with this. I know many people have a lot of fatigue from ADT, for them staying on it just does not work. I know a few people in that situation that are on Nubeqa alone, but most are in their late 70’s or 80’s and qualify of life is more important.
At least those with low-level cases of prostate cancer can usually stop ADT and live normal lives.
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