Apple Watch ECG and recorded Heart Rate data

Posted by jacqincalifornia @jacqincalifornia, 5 days ago

When I'm having runs of PVCs and/or PACs the ECG app on my Apple Watch will say "Inconclusive." Have others had this experience? I'm not sure how much credence the cardiologists give to data from Apple Watch and other fitness devices.

Also, when I look at my heart rate range for each day I almost always see a very high heart rate number at the top of the range. It occurs when I go from a mostly low level of activity to, say, walking out the door and over to the mailboxes, or getting up from sitting and picking up a basket of laundry. Those high rates only last a second or two at most but they are extreme (139, 119, 121, 142, and even a 159). I don't' even achieve these highs when I'm on the elliptical at the gym.

I don't know if these high numbers reflect a rate hyper-reactivity to the change in activity level, or if it's just something funky in the Apple Watch's algorithm. I should add: I'm a new poster here, I have LBBB.

I guess I'm just curious about others' experiences with cardiac data from their Apple Watch.

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Heart Rhythm Conditions Support Group.

Profile picture for Vicki @vickilf5

@moey2720 You have a lot of complex issues, and so it’s very important that you have a doctor whom you trust who can work with you in navigating these. The thoughts below are more general comments for your consideration.
First, regarding your question about using an Apple Watch or Kardia device with a pacemaker: they are not incompatible, and you can use both. However, a pacemaker has electrodes inside the heart that record the heart’s electrical activity very accurately. Thus, if you have fast heartbeats, they should be well detected by the pacemaker, although there are exceptions and technical situations where it may not be sufficient. In general, however, a pacemaker would provide the most accurate determination as to whether or not you have atrial fibrillation (a fast heart rhythm in the top chambers of the heart) and how much of it you have.
Importantly, while some people with atrial fibrillation feel their heart racing, other people do not. That’s because the top chambers are racing, but your pulse is driven by the bottom chambers—the ventricles. In some people, not all of the signals from the top chambers make it to the bottom chambers, so part of the heart is racing while the main part that controls your pulse may be normal or slow in its rate.
You asked a lot about whether or not a Watchman device or blood thinners are needed. This, again, is something that is very important to discuss with your doctor. In general, when atrial fibrillation is present, the top chambers are not squeezing effectively. All of us are born with a left atrial appendage, a small cul-de-sac or reservoir in the top left chamber of the heart. Ninety percent of the clots that form in the heart in patients with atrial fibrillation come from that area. If a clot forms (because the blood doesn’t circulate effectively in AF, it may clot) and leaves the heart it can plug an artery; if that artery is in the brain, the part of the brain doesn’t get enough blood and oxygen and those cells die: a stroke. If you are at risk for a stroke, the ways to prevent it in AF are either to use a blood thinner so that clots do not form, or to place a plug in the appendage (the pouch where blood is most likely to stagnate and clot), such as a Watchman device or a different device. This, in the long term, may eliminate the need for blood thinners and prevent the risk of stroke, because clots cannot form in the appendage and then leave the heart to plug arteries in other parts of the body.
The risk of stroke is not determined only by whether or not atrial fibrillation is present, but also by other risk factors. There is a scoring system called the CHA₂DS₂-VASc score, with each letter representing a risk factor: congestive heart failure, hypertension, age over 65, prior stroke or TIA, vascular disease, age over 75, and female sex. Thus, determining whether or not you are at risk is important in guiding these decisions, and the score is one tool widely used clinially. Getting back to my previous point, it is really important that you have a doctor you trust who is well-versed in this area and can guide you through it.
Best of luck as you navigate these complex decisions.

Jump to this post

@vickilf5 Addendum: I forgot to mention that, as I understand it, the Pacemaker regulates my heart rate at 60, which is what it is set for. With that, I always get notices from my watch records that for the month my AFib activity has been 2% or less for the month. But when I get a copy of the records from Abbott Heat Electrophysiology, I can see it shows that there were sporadic days with AFib activity from 10 minutes to an hour or longer; not for days on end, but sporadic. It makes it confusing. They are gathering information directly from the Pacemaker as I have a bedside tower that is connected to Abbott and then every 3 months they interrogate the Pacemaker directly. Thank you!

REPLY

It’s clear that an iwatch will interpret tachycardia, PACs and other arrhythmias as AFIB. So as my EP says, do t rely it all the time. Even Apple says it’s not always right.

REPLY

Inconclusive can also mean your hands are not making a good contact with the watch or are trembling and not giving a true reading. Even something as supposedly simple as reading your heart rate will be effected by the placement of the watch sensor on your wrist. It's suppose to be about an 1" above the wrist bone.
Really not that different than taking your BP. All sorts of rules and conditions supposedly get a correct measurement. Definitely a lot different that getting on a scale to weigh yourself.

REPLY
Profile picture for sandw40 @sandw40

Inconclusive can also mean your hands are not making a good contact with the watch or are trembling and not giving a true reading. Even something as supposedly simple as reading your heart rate will be effected by the placement of the watch sensor on your wrist. It's suppose to be about an 1" above the wrist bone.
Really not that different than taking your BP. All sorts of rules and conditions supposedly get a correct measurement. Definitely a lot different that getting on a scale to weigh yourself.

Jump to this post

@sandw40 - Do you mean 1" towards the HAND from the wrist bone?? Thanks, I have not heard that.

REPLY

They recommend in the help section of the manual that wearing it snuggly 2 fingers width above the wrist bone provides the most accurate reading but if the snugness becomes uncomfortable to loosen the band. They don't specify if the looser fit effects accuracy. I've noticed than when on my stationary bike I often get readings of less than 70 BPM and then adjusting to the above wrist bone position I receive a more accurate reading matching a finger to the pulse reading. At times the reading can change when I have my hands on the handlebars versus sitting upright.

I suppose it's better or easier than manually taking your pulse but like anything there are limits.

REPLY
Profile picture for JT1959 @jefftalley

While some people on this board will swear by their Apple Watch data, my three year experience with it has been mediocre. A couple of years ago it picked up afib when I did a random EKG. I have elected the weekly report of afib options and it will indicate afib anywhere from 7% to 25% of the time. My Mayo cardiologist thinks it’s confusing PACs (multiple Holter Monitors have had my load at 10-12%) with afib and its algorithm does something funky with the data. Electing the Apple Watch option for identifying an irregular heartbeat in real time has never alerted to anything. I wear it to monitor my heart rate on my runs and get little use out of it otherwise.

Jump to this post

@jefftalley I've had same experience. Watch says afib or "inconclusive"; my doc says it's PACs (I'm at 9% burden per Zio monitor). Watch is helpful to monitor heart rate as you noted. I think it's pretty accurate on oxygen level and to monitor fitness (VO2) and exercise effort level (METS). I read somewhere that there are apps that read Apple Watch data and refine it to pick up PACs, PVCs vs. afib. I haven't looked into those.

REPLY

My understanding is the watch doesn’t monitor continuously but rather spot watches. The times I get a-fib I can feel it then verify with the watch. I further verify with Kardia mobile. Accurate so far. The watch has alerted during sleep but I wasn’t aware until I woke up.

REPLY

If whatever wearable you have can upload a graphic ECG representation that you and a professional can read, it will show a proper depiction of a PQRST wave complex and you can see, for yourself if educated about reading them, what kind of problem is depicted. Atrial fibrillation shows no discernible P-wave, and the R-to-R peaks are all over the place in terms of distance/time between them...no reliable pattern. If PACs, you can see the close couplets or triplets, followed by an obvious long pause, and then the catch-up beat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premature_atrial_contraction
The wearables aren't licensed or certified to do more than to report AF, which along with VF, are the two most problematic or concerning arrhythmias, with the latter being potentially lethal inside of a few minutes. But if you take pains to learn how to read an ECG, you will soon learn what AF looks like and when you have PACs with bigeminy, trigeminy, or even bundle branch block if your wearable has the accuracy in the one lead to detect it....which pretty much none do. In fact, most pros will tell you that a 12 lead ECG is what works best to show clearly what is going on in the heart's rhythm.

REPLY
Profile picture for gloaming @gloaming

If whatever wearable you have can upload a graphic ECG representation that you and a professional can read, it will show a proper depiction of a PQRST wave complex and you can see, for yourself if educated about reading them, what kind of problem is depicted. Atrial fibrillation shows no discernible P-wave, and the R-to-R peaks are all over the place in terms of distance/time between them...no reliable pattern. If PACs, you can see the close couplets or triplets, followed by an obvious long pause, and then the catch-up beat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premature_atrial_contraction
The wearables aren't licensed or certified to do more than to report AF, which along with VF, are the two most problematic or concerning arrhythmias, with the latter being potentially lethal inside of a few minutes. But if you take pains to learn how to read an ECG, you will soon learn what AF looks like and when you have PACs with bigeminy, trigeminy, or even bundle branch block if your wearable has the accuracy in the one lead to detect it....which pretty much none do. In fact, most pros will tell you that a 12 lead ECG is what works best to show clearly what is going on in the heart's rhythm.

Jump to this post

@gloaming Thanks for the tip. Do you have a recommendation of a good resource to start learning how to read an ECG? I have quite a few 'strips' that my Apple watch have recorded.

REPLY
Profile picture for jacqincalifornia @jacqincalifornia

@gloaming Thanks for the tip. Do you have a recommendation of a good resource to start learning how to read an ECG? I have quite a few 'strips' that my Apple watch have recorded.

Jump to this post

@jacqincalifornia https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK2214/ This might be a decent start. Just do a google search like, 'how to read abnormal ECG with arrhythmia', or go to YouTube and do a similar syntax search.

REPLY
Please sign in or register to post a reply.