Protracted Benzo withdrawal

Thank you, Parus. I'm not quite there yet but close. My doctor hadn't heard about the Ashton manual either. In fact, she knew nothing at all about discontinuing benzos. I've concluded that she DID know about physical dependance. Which is why she told me "these drugs are impossible to discontinue." And also, "stay off the internet!" If I had stayed off the internet I would never have learned about the importance of a VERY gradual titration. I've never considered myself a particularly naive person. But I was regarding the Healthcare Industry. It's based on a profit model not a wellness model. I am done with it.

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Let me say something of Ashton Protocols. It's not to be considered as the last authentic word, or Bible of addicionology. Professor Heather Ashton prepared it on the context of UK in a certain period..This not to disregard the above said manual as many patients should have helped by it. Still I say, there is "To give and take from it."

Ashton is insanely stubborn on tapering off any Benzo using Valium. Should we need to consider Valium is something Godsend? Does Valium effectively treat all benzo dependence? No is the answer. Valium (Diazepam) works for some, but it would be bumper foolish to use it as the gold standard Benzo to treat dependence.

Valium has its own problems and they are not trivial to neglect. In certain patient population Valium can induce or aggravate aggressive behaviour to a considerable level. Valium is more of a depressant than a mood elater for some. This will inflict suicidal behavior in many. Often this is seen in patients consuming high doses, but hey..Ashton recommends Valium in high doses during the switch.. ie..for someone dependent on Xanax 8 or 9mg.. the Valium substitution can go as high as 100mg of Valium. This is not the recommended dose of Valium but Ashton can't help it.

Besides Valium is a highly reinforcing drug in it's class. Its subtle sedative effect with euphoriant high can attract drug abusers to use it again and again that is causative of another drug problem on its own.

Then why it is a benzo du jor in Ashton manual?

Reason : It was the only Benzo with an almost unbelievable half-life when professor Ashton entered the field. She found the certain Benzo's availability in the tiniest dose too that would make it convenient to use in from very high to relatively smaller dose forms. Ashton is addictionologist so, it is normal for her to look upon everything through the prism of addiction and treat likewise. But in the real world we have seen people immensely being helped by Benzos for their ailments and withdrawing the helping chemical will be devastating in their case because stopping and reinstating Benzos or Antidepressants can prove almost lethal for them for the reason the withdrawn drug may not necessarily effective in second attempt. Patients are forced to double their dosage to suffer more and unnecessary adverse effects.

I could have gone and on but long posts seldom attracts readers so, let me pause here now. One thing I learnt from my experience is there isn't any Protocols to follow in the case of Benzodiazepine addiction or habituation. First of all it is to educate people on their problems to the point of them having new insights on their own. This will help the needy to listen to their bodies. Working on this will help to target the goals to achieve.

And finally : Benzodiazepines are great drugs in the right hands. Many in the real world is being tremendously helped by them. The horror stories are mostly the aftermath of the medication being in the wrong hands. Users should recollect their state of mind prior to the medication, this is often impossible as the patient only look upon a drug after the drug being effective to the extent of them forgetting what led them taking it.

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Hello, @rauter, and welcome to Mayo Clinic Connect. Thanks for your perspective on the Ashton Manual, benzodiazapines and use of diazepam (Valium) to come off of them.

Here is some Mayo Clinic information on diazepam (Valium) https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/diazepam-oral-route/description/drg-20072333, including side effects and precautions.

You mentioned volunteering for a drug addiction clinic. Wondering if you also have had personal experience, @rauter, with tapering off of benzos?

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Let me say something of Ashton Protocols. It's not to be considered as the last authentic word, or Bible of addicionology. Professor Heather Ashton prepared it on the context of UK in a certain period..This not to disregard the above said manual as many patients should have helped by it. Still I say, there is "To give and take from it."

Ashton is insanely stubborn on tapering off any Benzo using Valium. Should we need to consider Valium is something Godsend? Does Valium effectively treat all benzo dependence? No is the answer. Valium (Diazepam) works for some, but it would be bumper foolish to use it as the gold standard Benzo to treat dependence.

Valium has its own problems and they are not trivial to neglect. In certain patient population Valium can induce or aggravate aggressive behaviour to a considerable level. Valium is more of a depressant than a mood elater for some. This will inflict suicidal behavior in many. Often this is seen in patients consuming high doses, but hey..Ashton recommends Valium in high doses during the switch.. ie..for someone dependent on Xanax 8 or 9mg.. the Valium substitution can go as high as 100mg of Valium. This is not the recommended dose of Valium but Ashton can't help it.

Besides Valium is a highly reinforcing drug in it's class. Its subtle sedative effect with euphoriant high can attract drug abusers to use it again and again that is causative of another drug problem on its own.

Then why it is a benzo du jor in Ashton manual?

Reason : It was the only Benzo with an almost unbelievable half-life when professor Ashton entered the field. She found the certain Benzo's availability in the tiniest dose too that would make it convenient to use in from very high to relatively smaller dose forms. Ashton is addictionologist so, it is normal for her to look upon everything through the prism of addiction and treat likewise. But in the real world we have seen people immensely being helped by Benzos for their ailments and withdrawing the helping chemical will be devastating in their case because stopping and reinstating Benzos or Antidepressants can prove almost lethal for them for the reason the withdrawn drug may not necessarily effective in second attempt. Patients are forced to double their dosage to suffer more and unnecessary adverse effects.

I could have gone and on but long posts seldom attracts readers so, let me pause here now. One thing I learnt from my experience is there isn't any Protocols to follow in the case of Benzodiazepine addiction or habituation. First of all it is to educate people on their problems to the point of them having new insights on their own. This will help the needy to listen to their bodies. Working on this will help to target the goals to achieve.

And finally : Benzodiazepines are great drugs in the right hands. Many in the real world is being tremendously helped by them. The horror stories are mostly the aftermath of the medication being in the wrong hands. Users should recollect their state of mind prior to the medication, this is often impossible as the patient only look upon a drug after the drug being effective to the extent of them forgetting what led them taking it.

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@gingerw Thinking of you today stay safe really pouring here

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Anyone found anything that helped this brutal condition so you could have any sort of life again? I am on 8 different Benzo withdrawal sites including benzo buddies and found zero help!

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Hi @aarniek,
I am so sorry to hear of your troubles with Ativan and other benzo's. I can share my story to provide some hope...please don't be discouraged by anything I share. I don't know why my withdrawal was relatively easy but here goes...I was on Ativan (2-3 mg daily)and clonazepam (2 mg daily) for over a decade. It was prescribed mainly to help reduce anxiety, although my primary condition was depression. I mainly took it at night (Ativan and Clonaz together) to put me to sleep and keep me asleep. Over the 10 yrs I was also on SSRIs. In the past 4 yrs, they added Seroquel to my drug mix to stop suicidal ideation.On top of all that, I was on hydromorphone and oxy's for a chronic pain condition.
In the past 9 months, I decided it was time to try coming off of as many meds as possible-I was just so tired of feeling groggy and fuzzy and having little ability to concentrate and experiencing memory impairment. I met once with an addictions psychiatrist who designed a withdrawal schedule for me. I was too afraid to read anything on sites like benzobuddies because people had told me so many bad stories about how it might be impossible for me to come off the meds without terrible side effects. So, I guess ignorance was bliss for me-I really tried to go into the process without reading anything on it.
I decided to get as physically healthy as I could while starting to taper so I started Weight Watchers which really helped me stop eating junk food and highly processed food-I think this made a huge difference for me as I'd never really cleaned up my diet. I lost 35 lbs in the first 20 weeks and was getting lots of exercise- walking 45 minutes/day and swimming 2-3 times per week. In retrospect I think the change in diet and the exercise really helped with lessening any anxiety symptoms as I weaned off the drugs.
We started with weaning me off Seroquel and then we attacked the opiates. I weaned off the extended release opiates first and used the oxy for any breakthrough pain. Then I tapered off the oxy dosage and do not use it at all now. Amazingly it turns out that my pain is tolerable without drug intervention-I was just too stoned all those years to realize the pain wasn't so bad anymore.
Then we attacked the benzos...starting with the ativan. I tapered off over a period of approx 6 weeks, and boosted the clonazepam while withdrawing from the ativan. In the past 8 weeks I have been tapering off the Clonaz (which was bumped up to 3 mg nightly) and am now down to .75mg nightly. I just saw my psychiatrist and we've decided to stay at the .75 level until I get through our rainy winter season here-SAD is an issue for me.
But there's so much good news in all this. My energy level is good, I wake up alert most days after 8 hrs sleep, I have not had any suicidal thoughts for 2 months, no panic attacks, not clinically depressed, no longer wear plus-sized clothes :)...I'm still a bit overwhelmed by financial stresses but can at least start to problem-solve with some clarity (which had been impossible for the past decade-I would just cry when any of life's little bumps in the road occurred).
I don't know what kind of medical support you have available but I have to say that seeing an addictions psychiatrist to develop my plan was an important first step. I also suspect that changing my diet (for real) and getting more exercise played a huge part in my process.
I am mad at my previous psychiatrist (who is now retired) for never red-flagging the long-term impact of the drugs he was prescribing me, but I am so grateful to be off the Seroquel, Ativan and on the way to being off the clonazepam as well.
I still take SSRI's for the depression but am so happy to be relatively drug-free. I never would have thought I could have reached this place, so please don't give up. You will be in my prayers and thoughts.

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@merry and all of us A lot of people have no idea how God is real and can change your life. This is not a LIe. There are a lot of people that will never have the Holy Spirit dwell within them. This is a fact. I believe God protected me as a child and without his love and understanding - I would have never been blessed or even able to help others. Read the Picture under- Footprints in the Sand-We all carry one another till we die. Why is it so hard for others to try and receive this Blessing. no matter the reason -I will always pray for everyone on these sights I pray for myself Now that is a big change for ME. Let Go and Let God This is a strong statement. We carry each other all the time. We get to points in our life -Where we get carried and it is ok Education is the key to growth.

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