Livedoid Vasculopathy or Livedo Reticularis (whole body face white)

Posted by canderson12 @canderson12, Oct 8, 2016

I have mottled skin that started out with a R.enlarged axilla lymph node and after biopsy worsened to full body (my biopsy was a failure as "lymph nodes fell apart during dissection") then my R. shoulder became more painful and it was overlooked until I moved to FL and saw a Orthopedic who diagnosed "detached shoulder" on 1st visit, this was not due to trauma or fall?? I had a Bankart Repair.SLAP 2, SA , extensive debredment an d was suppose to be discharged that day but was kept overnight for observation due to "Catacholamine attack" I heard the staff speaking of this while being wheeled to my room. I was discharged the next day and strangly never saw the doctor prior to surgery or prior to discharge? When I was admitted that day the nurses put about 10 heated blankets on me as my skin was so darkly mottled.
My pain is the R. upper extremity to axilla deep achy pain and shoulder to hand that now it affects my writing also rib area. My health has deterioted a great deal since finding the axilla lump and trying to find a compassionate doctor to listen to me has been difficult.
2 years after my failed shoulder surgery I had a CT or MRI of shoulder and it was found that I have severe Chrondomalacia (cartilidge loss) which the surgeon said it will only worsen but he refuses to do surgery as did another Orthopedic at UF Shands, I was also told the bicep is "raggedity" and the 4 pins inflammed.
I also was diagnosed with MGUS due to a abnormal IgA and Beta2glycoprotein which showed my blood too thick but the doctor said "take baby asa" I then was sent to Moffits for pain by my pain management but was told "we only treat cancer pain"
I have lost faith in the medical professionals as I just saw of my diagnosis that I never was told I had ( Heart disease. Pain all over?? etcc.) Misdiagnosis or doctors using the Psych card and that all our complaints are all in our head.
I just want relief of my suffering the R. upper extremity pain, palpatations, excessive sweating but skin cool, skin changes on face flakey peeling skin , enlarged pores on nose, unexplained bruising big black ones not sore to touch, my white face that my family says I look like walking dead, no appeteite, and dark tea colored urine that is strong odor with white floaters .and lastly a scalp lesion (solidary) that has not healed in about 4 years causing ulcerating and not able to have hair professionly cut styled.
Why I seem to get to get doctors who only do blood test or send me here and there only to be discouraged and my hopes deflated. I am 59 and female and have a upcoming Mayo appointment with Hematology/Oncology and this is and will be my last if they find nothing or do nothing more than what has already been done.
Anyone had any similair.... was your Livedo diagnosed by just looking at it like mine??

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Skin Health Support Group.

canderson12 | @canderson12 | Jan 12, 2017

In reply to @colleenyoung "Welcome @canderson12. I was relieved upon reading at the end of your message that you have..." + (show)

He never made a appointment to see me , some one in his office said my labs were okay? I am so sick of being told one thing by one doctor and then my Palliative care doctor who is quite knowledable and could see how mottled my skin was an my white pastey face told me that Moffitts labs were not normal? I really think if lets say your Kappa/Lappa FLC is high but not high enough as well as other immunity labs and the original Oncologist diagnosed me with MGUS and this has stuck that these Oncoogist know something is not right with me but thye could care less to further test for other internal cancers or genetic testing or cancer testing. They do not observe the patient's body ( like full body mottled skin, solidary scalp lesion that has not healed over 5 years 1st biopsy "necrotizing folliculitis" now pre cancer and frozen again and biopsied again making the lesion more indurated and size 1/2 dollar. No I give up on Mayo ! To me being as sick as I am and my urine smelling like a sewer with occasiional bleeding and then I forgot to write the estimate urine in 24 hour urine when mailed back so the lab guessed which it was over the amount but I really do not care anymore as Mayo again has been a failure. But thank you for your concern. . Nice of you to ask about the drug you spoke about but I am pretty fed up. I am looking for a new primary doctor who can maybe figure everything out because I have been genetic tested Narcolepsy as positive which is a autoimmune disease and my father is Quebec native born and Quebec Genetics recommend all Quebec born children of Quebec parents be genetically tested for "founders effects " disease and the list is long I suggested to the DR but never heard back, My fathers side of family most of them his mother, my aunts had sleeping disorders but never went to doctors and I can see why , Thye would of been put in a crazy home, because of the symptoms that go along with Narcolepsy are similair to pschotic features, I was the 1st in my family to tell a doctor and ever since it has been down hill. University Standford Narcolepsy research DR Mignot has done wonderful research on this rare disease and how to treat it as even the experienced Narcolepsy doctors I have ever seen have no clue about treating the individual patient according to there sleep studies as my Narcolespy is "the most severe central hypersomnia that in all the decades of treating Narcolepsy Cathy is the worse" My sleep latency is 0.5-1 minutes to sleep but rather than work with Dr Mignot which he offers to doctors free in treating as PDR can not be used in dosage form as someomne like myself need higher dosages and the "addicition they worry about is non existing" so it has been decades trying to get a quality of life with my Narcolepsy and have not achieved it , why would I think Mayo doctors would be able to help me. That appointment and results via phone by ?? was a insult to professional medical care, I was not given any options on who to see or what to do. I used to be a RN and will never be able to work again, let my license lapse but as sick as I am I know that was not professional behavior in patient care.Cathy

Kanaaz Pereira, Connect Moderator | @kanaazpereira | Jan 15, 2017

In reply to @colleenyoung "Welcome @canderson12. I was relieved upon reading at the end of your message that you have..." + (show)

@canderson12, I might suggest that you call the Office of Patient Experience to talk about your experience. You can call them between 8 am and 5 pm at this number 507-284-4988.
Might I ask what your palliative care doctor recommends?

canderson12 | @canderson12 | Mar 2, 2017

My Palliative care doctor increased my Morphine 30 mg every 4 hours , put me on B12 injections and was horrified how I have been treated by doctors and being diagnosed Livedo Reticularis via google pictures, no skin biopsies. I have had nothing more than labs and being on Medicare since 2010 I have not had 14 preventive care services that I guess you are suppose to get yearly? No physical exam whatsoever ever. My Palliative care doctor sent me back to my Pain management and her RX for Morphine increase which I did not fill but gave it to my pain management person (not a doctor ? maybe med assistant) but she scolded me for seeing a Palliative care doctor and taking care from Cancer patients who are in real need and how dare I take a space/time when someone with cancer has been withheld treatment due to you. I disagreed with her and said she had no business cursing me out as she was obviously not educated on what I have been thru . So this is how my care is and how I am insulted and humilated by health pros that have no business being in the business. All the years I was a RN I never disrespected a patient but I can tell you I have been insulted , ignored more than anyone should have to endear. I am sick of seeing new doctors cause I see them once and I do bring all my records , labs , surgeries that I believed failed as I still never got a ? as to why a visible enlarged palpative lymph node dissection biopsy gave no results as all "lymph nodes fell apart during dissection" I had cording after this and still suffer with deep achy pain in that axilla, chest wall and swelling feeling that I can not tolerate a bra ( not a pretty site) but my request for eval for lymphedema fitting bra is always ignored, then after that mess up is when the same side of the enlarged lymph node surgery my shoulder ball and socket felt detached but of course the Maine X-ray showed no detachement and 2 months later moving to FL I saw DR Manseau who happened to residency in Maine and had nothing good to say about the type of delivery care, I had surgery and he told my husband " she must of been suffering for quite some time as the ball and socket were completely detached and caused extensive damage to other structures due to delayed treatment, he did a SLAP2, Bankart repair, ext debredment and placed 4 rods , I am still in pain 2 years later so MRI showed severe Chrondomalacia (cartilidge loss ) with bicep raggeity and pins inflammed but he said "no surgery" and sent me to UF Stands Ortho for 2nd opinion and he planned to exploratory surgery but needed the surgical reports , well once he got those he refused to touch me, I want to add I was suppose to go home that day but was kept overnight for observation due to a Catacholamine attack, which was never spoke of by Dr Manseau as to why this happened. I have been thru too much only to be shot down and I am only getting weaker, fatiqued , weightloss, falls and unsteady gait. Doctors do not like patients with multiple issues but it is not my fault it is from neglect like the Fl Oncologist saying "I was too young for cancer" and my primary who sent me to him did nothing but sent me to a shrink , he was so mad at me I thought he was going to climb over the desk as he was yelling at me " OH you think docotrs who have had years of education should consult as a team or use internet tools to educate themselves for the sake of the patient" That was my last visit and I never went back to that primary care doc. I am just plain tired and do not think anyone will take the time or trouble as I think I am too far gone and would rather just have Hospice care so I can be with my family when my husband returmns to Maine and I have to stay in FL as I can not get my meds in Maine, but Hospice will not take me cause I am not diagnosed with cancer.

cathy56 | @cathy56 | Dec 7, 2023

In reply to @mlemieux "Hi @canderson12, Please excuse my delayed response. I've read through your story twice now just to..." + (show)

@mlemieux

Hi @canderson12,

Please excuse my delayed response. I've read through your story twice now just to make sure I understand all that you've gone through. I hope you can see from the wonderful people who've responded, that you are not alone in this fight. I too have battled doctors, nurses, triage, a mountain of symptoms and unanswered questions for 1/2 a lifetime.

The only thing that ever got me through what seemed like an eternity of false answers, is the love from my family and friends and the hope that one day I have the strength to push through the naysayer's, unreliable sources, incompetent specialists and non-believers because there has to be someone out there willing to do the things necessary to see it through, and they have.

Never give up, give in, or give away to defeat. No one knows your body better than they do, but they need your help to properly investigate the matter further. Not sure if you keep daily accurate records? If not, I would recommend you start logging your symptoms on a daily basis, including the time you feel pain, swelling, soreness, loss of appetite and how you slept the night before.

If you haven't already, please try to get an accurate and complete record of your health history. Add them to a binder in different topics according to the type of visitation and the result, or lack thereof.

Now, I can't respond to each of your health concerns, but here's what I can respond to...

1) Chronic Ulcers:

As @zenk stated, you definitely want to get a second opinion and biopsy of your wounds. Blood tests are not enough; a full biopsy of the skin is necessary to see what kind of chronic damage is being done. Find a competent dermatologist. I had to go through 3 of the best to find one that suited my case and had the knowledge necessary to make sound, appropriate decisions. Skin care is one of humanities most sought after holly-grail's.

Now it might be a case like mine. My vascular network, damaged and bruised is the cause of my ulcers. Blood pools, valves don't work, etc. Having a surgery can definitely affect your U-R system in the same fashion. Whenever we have any sort of traumatic event, the long-term damage is what affects us the most.

Interventional Radiologist:
if you're really interested to see what's going on with your vascular system, I would recommend you go see an Interventional Radiologist. An IR can map out your inner vascular system to seek out problem areas.

Interventional Radiologist are recommended by the Hematology department.

Specialized Massage Therapy: Lymphedema
While you're at it, you should also speak to a specialized nurse who is trained with helping to treat "Lymphedema". Your lymph nodes as you mentioned are like mine, chronic and painful. With one or two sessions, you can learn how to massage your lymph nodes properly to "drain" them of the toxic fluids being collected from your body.
http://tinyurl.com/jk9lo2s
==

2) Blood Tests:

With all the blood tests they've performed, have any of them tested for mass infections at all? Have you been prescribed any antibiotics? A great deal of the symptoms you mention seem similar to when I have an infection from my leg wounds, etc. The hot/cold sweats honestly sound like your immune system is fighting something serious. A great deal of alternative foods is available to help the body fight off foreign bodies (ex. garlic, honey, green tea, vitamin C, probiotic yogurt).

3) Livedo Reticularis & Livedoid Vasculitis:

The more I work with professionals in the Thrombosis community, the more I've learned that LV & Blood Clotting go hand in hand. Although most of the LV sufferers here within the Connect community haven't suffered through a blood clot, there seems to be a direct correlation with LV and Thrombosis and potentially a condition which I have called: Factor V Leiden.

Even to this day specialists keep saying they had no idea what LV was and its connection to Thrombosis, and this is coming from the top echelon in the field, so we still have a lot of work to do.

This is why they prescribed Aspirin to you. Aspirin thins out the blood, while also helping with inflammation and pain. In fact, in the past, they prescribed Aspirin to treat Blood Clots. All of which pertain to your case. Haven't seen whether this is a permanent fix, since you're still experiencing the same pain, but it can go a long way to preventing further damage. Please be extra careful when taking Aspirin since taking more than recommended is extremely dangerous. As an example, I'm on blood thinners for life. In fact, I’m on Xarelto, the same pharma that designed Aspirin. If I were to take even one Aspirin, I am in great danger of bleeding internally in the next 12-24 hours. So if you need pain relief and cannot get a prescription, I would take Aleve & Tylenol. Probably not recommended*** BUT, when I'm in dyer pain and I don't have an alternative, those two over-the-counter meds seem to tie me over for a bit. AGAIN, talk to your GP before taking more than necessary, one combination of meds can be ok for some, while others react vastly different.

Now what does this mean for you?

Well here's where the "health records" come into play. Since Dermatology & Thrombosis teams don't usually work together, you'll have to help them both to do their investigative research together, but separate. I've done this by bringing a full binder to every meeting I go to. This way I can reference tests, diagnosis, and even symptoms I've had in the past. All medicine is just an investigative research. Doctors typically have 10 minutes with each patient and that's it. It's up to us to fill in the blanks on our own (horrible I know, but until it changes, it's up to us).

Hematology/Oncology:

This is a good step to take. We are now only piecing the two together. There's a HUGE correlation between Cancer and Thrombosis which if your hematologist doesn't tell you about, then ask them asap. I understand these two are probably scary, but if you're anything like me, I would much rather know the "what", so I can concentrate on the "how". Not knowing the "what" is probably the single toughest challenge for patients worldwide.

Try to Stay Calm:

I can feel your anger, heck, I fully understand it 100%. Years ago, I used to fight my way through each visit. While working with patients who have extreme cases, I try to always remind them to try and stay calm when seeing a specialist. The last thing you want it to be marked as an "unruly patient". My file was once marked in a similar fashion, in fact, I would be tossed around from doctor to doctor because they didn't have the patience to hear me complain about everything. I know it goes against everything in your heart. I find the calmer I am, the more receptive they are to listen to my ideas and to come up with better ideas for the future.

I did a presentation a while back on the "mental aspects of a patient" to professionals in the field, the #1 response I got was: "wow, thank you, I never truly understood how a patient feels about me and how I treat them, I always took it so personally."

Full Body Scan:

You're going to hear the words, "I don't believe in them", but I wonder if it's time they perform a full body scan on you. I'm a big fan of tests that doctors dislike. Yes, it can find signs that don't relate, but it can also find abnormalities in your body that weren't considered. I found out I have 1 kidney and an abnormal bladder, go figure! What did that mean for me? Well I found out why I have a great deal of problems sleeping on one side and why I’m up all night peeing.

See you never know what's just around the corner. I understand how you feel, how your whole world seems to be looking outward from this dark cave no one seems to be able to find in the woods. If you can find the strength to light a fire in that cave, you'll soon see others who find you as well and the more that you connect with, the less lonely you'll start to feel and the easier it will become to venture out and tackle the daily hardships.

I hope our messages have helped you somewhat. I'm sure some of it is probably not what you needed at all, but I've always said, If I can just learn one thing about myself, that one thing is one more idea I never had before and can help me to discover the next big thing.

Like always, please speak to your doctor before trying something new.
I wish you a lot of happiness and love.

Regards,
Martin. R. Lemieux, Patient Advocate

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Mayo on 2018 dx me with FV Quebec Platelet Disorder which affects hyper viscosity and fibrinolysis . I did have blood clots with severe shortness breath 2 yrs ago but my health has deteriorated with incorrect procedures or incomplete biopsies that I was hoping it would take me out but last year I had another episode of shortness breath went to ER and embolism to lung put on blood thinners also 2019 cardiac stress test showed I had heart attack probably the 3 times I went to ER complaining of feeling heart attack but they did not draw labs and told me it was anxiety !! Seems to be normal for me to have inept care ! Now I am still waiting on my oncologist referral and the med staff going over the 46 pages he sent as it has been over week and still not heard from Oncology!

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