1. < Stroke & Cerebrovascular Diseases

Bow Hunters Syndrome/Stroke-Rotational occlusion of vertebral artery

Posted by ajp2019 @ajp2019, Dec 23, 2019

Is there a Neuro-Surgeon &/or Radiologist at MAYO who has seen/diagnosed/treated this condition? I found this:- Recommended procedure to confirm preliminary diagnosis "- Imaging B-mode transcranial color-coded duplex (TCCD), combines pulsed wave Doppler ultrasound with a cross-sectional view of the area of insonation.
- This allows identification of the arteries in relation to various anatomic locations.
- The color-coded Doppler also depicts the direction of the flow in relation to the probe (transducer) while recording blood flow velocities.
- In TCCD, the angle of insonation can be measured and used to correct the flow velocity measurement.
- A “Power Motion-Mode TCD (PMD/TCD)” will provide multi-gate flow information simultaneously in the power M-mode display.

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jdspouse | @jdspouse | Aug 16, 2023
In reply to @arctic22 "I have had the same thing for years ... comes and goes can turn my head..." + (show)
@arctic22

I have had the same thing for years ... comes and goes can turn my head and almost black out ..2 minutes later do the same movement nothing happens .. finally had one old wise dr. tell me after he could not duplicate it say" it's going to get worse ..or better ... or not change ... but till we could duplicate each time then live with it and adjust your life accordingly" which I have for about 15 years or so .. have bouts of it but if I have a bout I try to make sure not to try testing it to see if I can make it happen again or each time ... if I do that it tends to fade away too much triggering is not good for it also .. was told it was a blood vessel going through an opening in my spine more than likely ..

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We have done the same thing--made adjustments to life as needed. Jerry found one thing affecting this is how far overhead he is reaching. If the upper torso is tight the symptoms happen more rapidly and with more consistency. Recently he experimented with sleeping in the spare room on a softer mattress because he was ill and didn't want to share. We fund the softer mattress doesn't jam his shoulders up during sleep so the next day he is able to do more overhead without problems. When the doctors don't have answers we have always tried to figure it out ourselves. Life after a stroke is anything but "normal" so we are getting used to each day being a new experience with new challenges or a repeat of old ones. At least with the old ones we have more options to deal with them. After his stroke I was told by a wife who had gone through that experience years earlier "Welcome to the new normal--remember at the end of the day it's just a setting on your dryer." Have found that to be sooo true and a smile in the midst of trial never hurts. Thanks for your thoughts and encouragement.

REPLY
1 reply
arctic22 | @arctic22 | Aug 16, 2023
In reply to @jdspouse "We have done the same thing--made adjustments to life as needed. Jerry found one thing affecting..." + (show)
@jdspouse

We have done the same thing--made adjustments to life as needed. Jerry found one thing affecting this is how far overhead he is reaching. If the upper torso is tight the symptoms happen more rapidly and with more consistency. Recently he experimented with sleeping in the spare room on a softer mattress because he was ill and didn't want to share. We fund the softer mattress doesn't jam his shoulders up during sleep so the next day he is able to do more overhead without problems. When the doctors don't have answers we have always tried to figure it out ourselves. Life after a stroke is anything but "normal" so we are getting used to each day being a new experience with new challenges or a repeat of old ones. At least with the old ones we have more options to deal with them. After his stroke I was told by a wife who had gone through that experience years earlier "Welcome to the new normal--remember at the end of the day it's just a setting on your dryer." Have found that to be sooo true and a smile in the midst of trial never hurts. Thanks for your thoughts and encouragement.

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I too had a stroke last year caused by the blood thinner Plavix which I had taken for years stopped working and no one caught it. Yes you have to make adjustments in your life and take what dr's tell you at face value. After a recent surgery ...and re- surgery within 4 weeks I really take that to heart. Don't give up on hope but also try not to dwell on it to the point it becomes your main focus. It's hard for us men as things happen to us in life and we age to admit we can no longer do things as well, quick,or timely as we used to. It's up to the women in our lives to set the pace and keep us from doing dumb things ... lol

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parker8722 | @parker8722 | Dec 13, 2023

Does any know any other surgeons in Minnesota that experience with bow hunters syndrome/ rotational vertebral artery syndrome. I wasn’t able see anyone at Mayo because my case was rejected

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elenasparrow | @elenasparrow | Sep 20 9:31am

Hello
I me from Italy 🇮🇹
Can a craniocervicomandibular dysfunction be caused by a vertebral artery that is occluded by rotation of the atlas to compensate for a descending postural collapse?

REPLY
1 reply
Mentor
Jennifer, Volunteer Mentor | @jenniferhunter | Sep 20 2:30pm
In reply to @elenasparrow "Hello I me from Italy 🇮🇹 Can a craniocervicomandibular dysfunction be caused by a vertebral artery..." + (show)
@elenasparrow

Hello
I me from Italy 🇮🇹
Can a craniocervicomandibular dysfunction be caused by a vertebral artery that is occluded by rotation of the atlas to compensate for a descending postural collapse?

Jump to this post

@elenasparrow Welcome to connect. This is a patient forum and does not have clinicians who can diagnose medical issues. We all learn from each other through sharing our experiences as patients.

You may be interested in this link about atlantoaxial and craniocervical instabilty. The author has a presence on facebook where you may comment on his posts. I find his articles very informative. He often posts discussions on diagnostic information in his facebook posts.

"Do you really have atlantoaxial and craniocervical instability? A critical view on the overdiagnosis of AAI/CCI"
Posted on July 13, 2022 by Kjetil Larsen
https://mskneurology.com/do-you-really-have-atlantoaxial-and-craniocervical-instability/
My understanding is that there is a physical problem of rotation of the spine that stays in a rotated position that causes blood flow to be blocked in the vertebral arteries. I don't have Bow Hunter's Syndrome", but I do have some occasional slight rotation of cervical vertebrae from muscle spasms related to Thoracic Outlet Syndrome. The TOS is worse on one side with one side of my neck tighter because of it, and that causes rotation if the muscles tighten. I am able to stretch it out and resolve the issue. This has also caused some vertigo. That was prior to my C5/C6 spinal fusion surgery. Since then, it has calmed down, and I don't get vertigo. I will get one sided muscular headaches that clue me to stretch and even out the tension to stop the slight rotation that is happening.

Do you have a diagnosis of Bow Hunter's Syndrome or a spine condition?

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elenasparrow | @elenasparrow | Sep 20 2:40pm

Hello,
I received confirmation of vertebral occlusion on the left side with a TSA DYNAMIC ECODOPPLER exam,
being severely allergic to contrast media with previous ones I can no longer do them
As I was saying I have a diagnosis of cranio-cervical-mandibular dysfunction with descending postural collapse following a trauma my entire spine has shifted I have c1 and c2 misaligned but which they cannot realign for some reason
Sorry to my English
I speak Italian language

REPLY
1 reply
Mentor
Jennifer, Volunteer Mentor | @jenniferhunter | Sep 20 2:56pm
In reply to @elenasparrow "Hello, I received confirmation of vertebral occlusion on the left side with a TSA DYNAMIC ECODOPPLER..." + (show)
@elenasparrow

Hello,
I received confirmation of vertebral occlusion on the left side with a TSA DYNAMIC ECODOPPLER exam,
being severely allergic to contrast media with previous ones I can no longer do them
As I was saying I have a diagnosis of cranio-cervical-mandibular dysfunction with descending postural collapse following a trauma my entire spine has shifted I have c1 and c2 misaligned but which they cannot realign for some reason
Sorry to my English
I speak Italian language

Jump to this post

Are you getting any treatment like physical therapy? Did a surgeon tell you it cannot be fixed? There are few surgeons who operate in that area of C1 and C2 because of the risks. I imagine that must be difficult to live with symptoms that limit blood flow to the brain. Your English seems fine. I think Connect also has some ability to translate language in posts.

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