Testosterone, normal levels but many symptoms?

Posted by thetor @thetor, Oct 1, 2022

Hey there.
Hope I can get some info and maybe som good tips on what I should do, as my doctor makes it feel like it's just in my head, though it doesn't feel that way to me.

I've recently had a few visits with my doctor, because I've noticed that I have several of the symptoms that could be caused by low test. levels.
But after being tested twice, my levels are what he says are "within the lower normal levels"
He says my symptoms are not caused by low testosterone, but says it's due to a lot of other factors.
And I am very confused.

Symptoms:
- Mr. Willie isn't as active as he should be
- My hair is running away from my face
- Problems with my memory is getting more normal
- I feel fatigued a lot of the time
- Get easily annoyed/antsy
- Feeling more depressive/down than before
- Problem building musclemass
- Problem burning fat (Both despite having a very strict and hard training and diet)
- Lack of focus

And these are newer symptoms, only started noticing them the last 2 or so years. And I'm not even that old, 39 and turning 40 next year (2023)
I genuinly have no idea what to do next.
Any tips and/or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you
T

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From experience, you MUST know your free testosterone levels. Most guys won’t know what their baseline levels were since most doctors don’t care to check until you complain about symptoms you KNOW you are experiencing.
Also keep in mind those reference ranges for testosterone levels have been reduced over the years since the general population levels have continued to decline.
I have seen several doctors over the years and they refused to consider TRT even though my total and free testosterone levels were at and later well below the low end of the reference range. Like most men I too don’t know what my baseline testosterone levels were back in the day, I think they must have been higher than the average based on symptoms starting to manifest well before I crossed below the low threshold levels.

In January of 2022 my left ear ruptured and bled all over my pillow. I felt like an ice pick had been shoved in my ear. I went to an urgent care place and was diagnosed with COVID. I ended up losing most of my hearing in the left ear. Both ears were impacted and I had lost all my hearing for a couple weeks. Getting into see the ENT specialist had to wait until I was negative for COVID. I think the delay caused more damage.
The pain was persistent until the ENT specialist cut the ear drum and I could actually hold my nose and whistle out my left ear.
In hindsight I think several things started happening with that COVID infection:
My testicles started shrinking.
Erections basically stopped happening. My ED got progressively worse.
I had an overall ache in my body.
I gained about 40 pounds.
Depression became a major issue since I started having suicidal thoughts.
After seeing my urologist in April of 2023 and him telling me all my issues were due to my recent weight gain I decided I had to find new doctors.
I searched for an endocrinologist to pursue TRT. After another round of lab tests he confirmed what the prior lab results had already shown.
I started TRT in May 2023.
I noticed immediate improvements.

I think the rapid, further decline of my testosterone, testicular shrinkage, testicular pain, loss of erections before starting TRT somehow were related to COVID.

A subsequent COVID infection in July of 2023 on a cruise ship was treated with 10 days of Paxlovid along with Azithromycin.
After that treatment my testicular pain and overall aching subsided.
I have since lost 45 pounds.

In summary you must be your own advocate. If a doctor refuses to listen to you then you should at least consider a second opinion or changing doctors.
Do your own research.
Secondly, consider the possibility that COVID could have a connection to your situation.

Also your lab tests should come from the same testing facility if you are trying to observe trends and because various labs utilize different methods and ranges.

REPLY

I totally agree with what you are saying. I also have gone through the situation where I needed to be my own advocate. TRT is very crucial if a guy is having symptoms. My symptoms starred when I was 36. Now I'm 44. I can't ejaculate without a PVS device. I can't maintain an erection for penatrating without penile injection before sexual inturcurse even on TRT. But most important if see symptoms to be imbarrassed to deal with them and you need to trust your specialists.

REPLY
Profile picture for kbb57 @kbb57

From experience, you MUST know your free testosterone levels. Most guys won’t know what their baseline levels were since most doctors don’t care to check until you complain about symptoms you KNOW you are experiencing.
Also keep in mind those reference ranges for testosterone levels have been reduced over the years since the general population levels have continued to decline.
I have seen several doctors over the years and they refused to consider TRT even though my total and free testosterone levels were at and later well below the low end of the reference range. Like most men I too don’t know what my baseline testosterone levels were back in the day, I think they must have been higher than the average based on symptoms starting to manifest well before I crossed below the low threshold levels.

In January of 2022 my left ear ruptured and bled all over my pillow. I felt like an ice pick had been shoved in my ear. I went to an urgent care place and was diagnosed with COVID. I ended up losing most of my hearing in the left ear. Both ears were impacted and I had lost all my hearing for a couple weeks. Getting into see the ENT specialist had to wait until I was negative for COVID. I think the delay caused more damage.
The pain was persistent until the ENT specialist cut the ear drum and I could actually hold my nose and whistle out my left ear.
In hindsight I think several things started happening with that COVID infection:
My testicles started shrinking.
Erections basically stopped happening. My ED got progressively worse.
I had an overall ache in my body.
I gained about 40 pounds.
Depression became a major issue since I started having suicidal thoughts.
After seeing my urologist in April of 2023 and him telling me all my issues were due to my recent weight gain I decided I had to find new doctors.
I searched for an endocrinologist to pursue TRT. After another round of lab tests he confirmed what the prior lab results had already shown.
I started TRT in May 2023.
I noticed immediate improvements.

I think the rapid, further decline of my testosterone, testicular shrinkage, testicular pain, loss of erections before starting TRT somehow were related to COVID.

A subsequent COVID infection in July of 2023 on a cruise ship was treated with 10 days of Paxlovid along with Azithromycin.
After that treatment my testicular pain and overall aching subsided.
I have since lost 45 pounds.

In summary you must be your own advocate. If a doctor refuses to listen to you then you should at least consider a second opinion or changing doctors.
Do your own research.
Secondly, consider the possibility that COVID could have a connection to your situation.

Also your lab tests should come from the same testing facility if you are trying to observe trends and because various labs utilize different methods and ranges.

Jump to this post

Thnx , agree

Does TRT = testosterone replacement therapy ?

REPLY
Profile picture for nolivap99 @nolivap99

Thnx , agree

Does TRT = testosterone replacement therapy ?

Jump to this post

Yes.
TRT = Testosterone Replacement Therapy

REPLY

@thetor From the symptoms you describe, you could be dealing with RED-S (Relative Energy Deficiency in Sport). Two red flags that caught my eye are a strict diet and lots of exercise. With that combination it's relatively easy to accidentally under-fuel your workouts and end up in a caloric deficit most days, and especially your hard workout days.

This type of caloric deficit can accumulate over time and put your body into a Low Energy Availability (LEA) state, that eventually leads to RED-S. RED-S used to be called the "female athlete triad" because many female athletes were losing their periods due to it... but they've since realized that it affects men too, and it's not just athletes but pretty much anyone that leads an active lifestyle can be affected. That's what happened to me... I thought I was eating healthy but in reality I was under-fueling my workouts and ending up with a 200 to 500 calorie deficit most days of the week.

RED-S causes your brain to trigger some evolutionary adaptions to deal with the low energy availability state. Your body feels like it's shutting down because that's essentially what it's doing. It's slowing down your metabolism to help conserve energy and shutting down some "non-essential" functions like reproduction, leading to lower testosterone levels in men.

Pretty much all the symptoms you are describing are part of RED-S. It can also affect the immune system and bone health leading to stress fractures, illnesses and other injuries in many athletes.

Here is a good article that describes RED-S in more detail:
https://mcpress.mayoclinic.org/women-health/understanding-relative-energy-deficiency-in-sport-red-s-risks-of-eating-disorders-in-athletes/
There are nutritionists and sports medicine doctors that specialize in RED-S recovery. Unfortunately it does take some time to recover. It can take anywhere from 2-6 months or more before your hormone levels fully normalize.

DM me if you want more details about my experience recovering from RED-S.

Good luck

REPLY
Profile picture for thetor @thetor

Hello @jenatsky.
Thank you for reply.
I'm still not 100% convinced it's not due to low testosterone, but I'm always open to find out what's wrong.

It's not CO, as I live in an area with very low pollution, very clean air and good ventilation in my home. I work as a Personal Trainer (part time) and do a lot of outdoor training with my clients.

I have been to a psychotherapist, and from her diagnosis, there's nothing wrong expect the symptoms of depression, anxiety and irritability there's nothing else mentally wrong.

I've had full blood work tests, and all the results say I'm in perfect health, aside from a little low on vitamin D, which is normal here in the north due to little sun. Everything else is almost damn in the middle of the accepted range.

I'm very active, training 4 days a week for about 3 hours and I have a pretty healthy diet. Been into strength sports since I was 14 🙂

No illegal P.E.D's. I'm to scared, as there is history of heart issues on my mothers side, so I'm not willing to take a chance that I could provoke something there.
100% natural (Aside from surgery to fix broken bones and torn muscles)

One of the biggest reasons I suspect low testosterone is that so many of the symptoms match, and when looking at the results of the test, I'm just above the minimum level.

As someone that (also) has an automotive engineering degree, my thought is "Just because it's within spec, does not mean it's optimal".
But hell, there must be something wrong to explain what's wrong right? 🙂

Still don't know what's wrong, but I'll keep trying to find out, even though I do feel that it's affecting my mental health not knowing why my body feels like it's shutting down. And in just 2 or 3 years.

Jump to this post

"As someone that (also) has an automotive engineering degree, my thought is "Just because it's within spec, does not mean it's optimal"."

And this is the problem with modern medicine. They only look at specs. Every person is unique and they've lost sight of that. What's "spec" for one is not necessarily for another.

Hubby is going through the same symptoms, and having his testosterone levels tested this morning. This has all happened within the past 6 months for him, except for his ED, which he's had for the past 20 years (it's been a painfully long dry spell for both of us, being 1/3 of our lives and half our marriage) and I also noticed that his testicles have drastically shrunk in size. Have you had prostate and testicular exams? PSA test (although you're a little young for it, it could be helpful.) He's not even interested in DIY these days. Nothing gets his motor running. Doc just attributed it to "getting old" (he's 61), which is the ultimate punt. So, we're just supposed to accept that? I don't think so! And neither shoujld you. I would definitely get a second opinion. Visit an endocrinologist, instead of just a family practice/general practice doctor. They can do a full hormone workup on you.

REPLY
Profile picture for nolivap99 @nolivap99

Thnx , agree

Does TRT = testosterone replacement therapy ?

Jump to this post

Believe it does

REPLY

My urologist finally relented to ordering a Testosterone blood draw, the results were in the “normal” range, but at the very low end.
When I asked for a prescription for TRT, he reminded me about my Gleason Score of 7, with some pre-cancerous findings from a prostate biopsy, and told me that a higher T. level would cause the prostate issue to become worse more rapidly. In other words, it sucks that my T. level is “low-normal”, but it’s better than the alternative.

As I previously wrote in other threads on this site, I have had 2 TURP procedures (the urologist told me I would have ED after the second one, as the first one didn’t work), UroLift implants, and late last year an Aquablation procedure- all of the above have been attempts to reduce urine retention, and the Aquablation may have finally done that. I can manage the ED with medication, but no ejaculations and minimal orgasms, but still have adequate sexual drive. I’m married and 74.

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Bullpucky! On the 'normal range' thing that is. In my opinion, it's a dodge to say that the doctor is abdicating his power of diagnosis over to the lab corporation. Find a doctor (this isn't easy, I know) that has time and energy to find an answer for your dilemma. I've been through this and the answer to my own situation was that I was taking my doctor's suggested TRT weekly --too small a dose, as well-- but large enough to deplete and shut down my own body's production of free testosterone. In other words, the TRT shut down the Test I should have been producing. Almost zero. He was flustered about this and tried to blame it on the anastrozole he had prescribed for me to keep my exogenous testosterone from converting to estrogen. What?
Here is the key to my problems. It might not be the key to yours. You must know what you endogenous testosterone score is. But, I found my answer by using injections of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin. Investigate this hormone and it's actions on the male body, and you may regain your bodies ability to make its own testosterone. I did this without my urologist knowing and his answer was that my lab scores were out of the "normal" range. "Way too high". But they were barely out of the suggested normal range! Funny. That was the best I had ever felt. So, apparently, my "normal range" was not normal to the averages on the chart. And his answer to my inquiry about possibly using HCG? (I didn't tell him that I had taken this) He said, that he "didn't get into that stuff". Translation: "I don't have time to find out what it can do for a man, I just use the scores on the lab sheet."
I am just speaking from my own frustrated experience here. My science background is not endocrinology, but when it comes to finding an answer to my own problems I feel compelled to research as much as I can about a possible answer. I suggest you do the same. And good luck, and good health!

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