Will to Live

Posted by cekkk @cekkk, Aug 13, 2023

I'm old. Covid recovery left me with a problem that makes it difficult to walk. That was over three years ago. I was over covid before many had heard of it. Since then I've developed a handful of problems typical of an 80 year old guy. Nothing life threatening. But as things pile up I realize that the doctor no longer fixes me. With luck he, and more often his nurse practitioner, manage my problems. Well, some of them at least. Others, not so much.
That makes me wonder, since I am uncomfortable all of the time, and do I really want to live too, say, 96 as my father did? And aside from blindness caused by a VA ophthalmologist, he was in really good shape. And he was still ready to go. I recall one time I called him, he answered and I said how are you, dad? And he said, well, damn it, I woke up again.
Finally, with his wife in her 90s and unable to help him off the floor when he would trip over something, they convinced him to go into a home. He did not want to do that. But he acquiesced, went to sleep in the hospital that night and did not wake up. He actually let it go. Life. No heart trouble. No cancer or organ failure, he just said, okay, this has been enough. The other day I was just getting out of the car to go into a doctor's office. There was a couple trying to get through the door of the building. It was an old woman who appeared to be on her last legs. She was assisting an old man who looked like the walking dead. And it occurred to me, why do we want to go on like that?
And that is my question. At what point should we just let it go? I'm not talking about suicide, don't believe in it. Not for me anyway, others should do as they believe is right for them. But in my case I have three exceedingly successful children with wonderful marriages, all three can take care of me and my wife although we are able to do that ourselves, speaking financially. Got a great marriage and the only reason I see for sticking around much longer than I would like is to take care of her should she need me. Right now she is taking care of my various incapacities. So I will just end it there and repeat, why do we insist on living long after good life has left us?

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@cekkk

I am so sorry for you and anyone else with severe chronic pain. I have chronic pain but it is of the two to three level with just an occasional pinprick to a five or six. It's just enough to make me try to understand what it's like to have six and seven and eight and nine grade pain continually. I had a friend dying of cancer who still had great pain on, as I understand it, liquid morphine. I can only try to understand what you are going through. My prayers to you. Be strong.

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Unfortunately, pain control is no longer adequate, generally speaking, because the DEA has cut production of opioids by about a 4th, and the use of cheap, effective meds for chronic, acute, and end of life pain has been radically reduced due to a very non-scientific misrepresentation of the facts. Prescription chronic pain patients were not the source of the opioid crisis. That was back door folks here and in other countries selling batches to drug dealers. At most up to 8% of opioid prescription drug users became addicted, and SO WHAT?

A recent peer reviewed study by a female Harvard oncologist in 2023 (I can look up link) indicated that Hospice patients are on greatly reduced, often ineffective pain meds--and guess who's had their dosages reduced the most in the past 10 years? BLACK WOMEN.

How is that a study was publicized from 2022 in which women patients reported their pain being attributed to mental problems EIGHT TIMES more often than men did, and yet this war on pain meds isn't seen as the sexist, eugenicist, victim-blaming exercise it is? Vets are caught up in it too, but if you follow the trends documented only by doctor/patient alliances to address this damaging NeoProhibition, suicides of despair are way up compared to 10 yrs ago while opioid use is at record lows. Fentanyl deaths, however, are up, Maybe desperate caregivers and/or patients are having to go to the streets to get meds, as many doctors have reported advising their patients b/c their hands are tied--or maybe drug dealers feel free to bring it in while compassionate doctors are having their assets seized by law enforcement.

It's one thing to face aging, disability, pain, grief, and death--it's another watching a major social movement leading to suicides or state-approved state euthanasia. It's bad enough facing the ageism and sexism of turning 60, but now w/ Canada and California's proposed euthanasia-even-without-imminent-death programs, those of us who can't take generic effective meds that cost pennies to improve our functionality and quality of life can get the State to give us ONE BIG DOSE OF THOSE MEDS and then poof, we're off the disability and social security rolls.

This to me keeps me going. I never thought I'd see the day where, like my grandfather born in 1901 who was writhing in pain on his deathbed until my Mom got the doctor to give him morphine (despite in the 70s their fear he'd become "addicted), I'm now facing ongoing humiliation and suffering to only end in suicide. This is insane.

Check out Doctor/Patient Forum or Pain News Network. They're just starting to get some congresspeople on board. We need hearings. This is MAID by another name. God bless.

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@sueinmn

@cekkk The question you pose is great food for contemplation or discussion. Let me tell you a story.
My Dad died too young at 74, leaving my Mom on her own - sort of - with 6 kids, grands, many friends and activities she kept on going. But she told me many times her heart wasn't REALLY in it any more.

Yet as age and illnesses crept up on her, she...kept on going.
I was one of her caretakers and confidants as she aged and we had a number of wonderful conversations. After my Dad, her dance partner of 56 years dies, she never wanted to dance again - she told me "I closed that chapter." She still came with us and listened to music when we danced, never missed a live performance she could get to - but didn't dance.
For the next 15 years, she and her sister often traveled to new places together and had new adventures, just the 2 of them with, or with me or my cousin. After a trip that was more difficult because of their health (they were both over 80) when I offered the next adventure she repeated "I closed that chapter."
Some years later, she and her sister simultaneously decided to sell their winter homes in South Texas. By that time, my husband and I were retired and traveling. We offered to take her back there, rent a place by her friends and visit - she thanked me and said "I closed that chapter."
And so it went - she still took joy in that which she was able to do, and in visiting with her friends, kids and grands, but she closed more chapters - managing her own home, making big family dinners, baking, driving her friends places...
Finally, after a particularly difficult illness & hospitalization she went to stay in a palliative care place, trying to get back on her feet to go to her apartment. One day, when we were alone, she asked "Will I ever get back there?" I told her only if we restarted her PT (which I had done with her many times) and she said "bring me my walker tomorrow and let's do it." The next morning, the director met me at the door and told me "she changed her mind, you can put it back in the car." That was Monday morning. On Friday, after seeing and talking to all of her kids and grands, and a few of her friends, she closed her eyes and closed the final chapter.

As I age, I have had to let go of a few things so far, and I try to think of those as closed chapters. I hope I am as graceful as my Mom as life continues.
Sue
PS I just had a wonderful visit with my auntie, who at 96 has closed a few chapters but is still active in her apartment community. The women in my family (both sides) tend to live 90 or more years so I expect to have a lot more chapters to write before I am done.

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Oh thank you so much for sharing your mom’s story. I am turning 65 this year. After 60 I feel like I age 5 years for every year and I hate it. I am grateful for every day just the realization of my body struggling to keep up is frustrating. I still work and dread going on Medicare. I know it’s crazy but some of it is because I am caring for my 84 year old mother-in-law. So good to hear about your mom and for @cckkk’s question. I just am trying to stay active. As long as God has me here, I hope to be mobile.

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I have just finished reading the above posts as this is new to me. Having the will to live? Do we actually have control over that short of suicide? I am very old. 89 to be exact. My husband died 2-1/2 years ago. We were together for 62 years, 59 of them married. It has been a terrible blow to me and I don't know if I will ever get over it. Yet here I am still living and living independently. I gave a solemn vow to my oldest son that I would not do away with myself and I will not. But really down deep I have no more will to live without my husband beside me. But I still wake up every morning. I am in relatively good shape and do not take a bunch of drugs and have no pain. Except for my age I am just like everyone else. I take care of myself; I cook for myself; I get in the car and drive myself wherever I have to go. I do not feel like I am 89. It almost feels like my age is an accident. But there it is.

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@thisismarilynb

I have just finished reading the above posts as this is new to me. Having the will to live? Do we actually have control over that short of suicide? I am very old. 89 to be exact. My husband died 2-1/2 years ago. We were together for 62 years, 59 of them married. It has been a terrible blow to me and I don't know if I will ever get over it. Yet here I am still living and living independently. I gave a solemn vow to my oldest son that I would not do away with myself and I will not. But really down deep I have no more will to live without my husband beside me. But I still wake up every morning. I am in relatively good shape and do not take a bunch of drugs and have no pain. Except for my age I am just like everyone else. I take care of myself; I cook for myself; I get in the car and drive myself wherever I have to go. I do not feel like I am 89. It almost feels like my age is an accident. But there it is.

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Well, good for you. My father was 96 and in good health aside from having been blinded by the VA and a laser mishap. When his 92-year-old wife was no longer able to assist him, they begged him to go into a home. He had resisted that for more than a couple years. So he phil, went in the hospital, they talked him into it, he agreed to go to a home. He went to sleep that night and never woke up. That is the way to go.

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There are things that we have great control on: I can and do take care of food that is tasty and nutritious, I engage in physical activity to help me love and live the life I like to spend my days that give me a sense of having used my time on earth in way that I would look back back and say: Not bad given your lot -- your challenges and constraints over eight decades.

But time is a strange dimension: we often Don't notice it when loving/living life most. Does it mean length of time is immaterial to Good Life, I often wonder.
And while there are things we can control for a generally healthy life there is one area that is outside of our control: Socially rewarding connection where each side gives-and-gains. Like the caress on the back of a cat where you and your cat are simultaneously rewarded by the other. This, my friends what Friends are for. They exist outside of your control, but enrich each one in their circle.

My last few years have not turned into any potential leads but tomorrow, again, over zoom I hope to find the few I could develop into those who you can share your deepest concerns, hopefully getting to starting with: how to die a good death in a world where we increasing become alienated and famished for friends.

Yes there is a reason why friends are important: they help ward off physical illnesses too, not just psychological. With the Surgeon General steering a World Health Org commission on this issue to local efforts by Harvard and (others) attest to the social epidemic that exacts so much suffering and issues one might least suspect such as diabetes increasing by 50% .
May we all live thriving lives!
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/who-loneliness-health-stigma-1.7035081

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At 74yrs, 6months and 2 weeks, I'm in pretty good condition, no major illnesses and only minor pains. I take care to not go too far past my limits, as recovery from muscle strains is taking longer.
Realizing my life expectancy is 93 years, I've begun a new business venture. My old friend who introduced me to musical instrument building was still in the shop in his 90s, and someday I may be there, too. I can't be sure of it, but if I stay well for another 20 years, I will have purpose and connection.
My wife is not so healthy, but she is trying hard to rebuild her health. My shop is 15 steps from our house and I choose my work hours, so I am available to help when needed.
I don't work as fast or move the heavy pianos I rebuilt 15 years ago. I work for comfortable joy and don't compete with my 50-year-old self. I feel very lucky to live a life of self-directed purpose.

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Hi Cekk,
I am so sorry you are not in good health. It's good that you have a wife who cares about you and can help you. My husband is 83 and has lung cancer and other little daily problems; hoarse voice sometimes etc. I also have a few problems; mainly incontinence. We help each other also. How long we live is totally up to God. Only he knows when it will all end. In the meantime, eat healthy, enjoy life and your family and thank God for what you have. Also remember that you will eventually be up in Heaven with no pain at all and all your family will join you, sooner or later.
I will say a prayer for you.
PML

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