What can I expect after my biopsy?

Posted by ericp502 @ericp502, Mar 28 9:39pm

51 year old and was diagnosed two weeks ago via MRI with a Gleason 7+ cancer.

MRI results below. Nothing was found in the lymph nodes or seminal sack. I have BPH on the Right side and that has been effecting me for several years.

LEFT PERIPHERAL ZONE: Ovoid focus at the lower 3rd peripheral zone measures up to 5 x 3 x 7 mm in largest AP, transverse and craniocaudal dimensions. This demonstrates diffusion restriction and low ADC signal. This does not enhance asymmetrically from the adjacent central gland. No other similar-appearing focus identified.

Prostate volume: The prostate measures 4.0 x 5.4 x 4.4 cm in largest AP, transverse and craniocaudal dimensions. This corresponds to a volume of 49.76 cc. Calculated maximum expected PSA of 5.97 ng/mL
IMPRESSION:
Suspicious diffusion restricting nodule in the left-sided peripheral zone at the apex. PI-RADS 4

I’ve been through multiple Urologists trying to get help with my enlarged prostate. The urologist I’ve had for 20+ years due to kidney stones wouldn’t give me a PSA because I was too young. He said to wait until I was 50 even though my father has prostate issues and he was my father’s urologist. My dad has had a PSA of 15 with multiple biopsy’s but no cancer found.

The second urologist did run my PSA and it was a 5. He did set me up for PSA screenings every six months but the only treatment he would do was prostate massages anytime I came into the office. That didn’t help and truthfully made my problem worse.

Went to my third urologist last July. My PSA was still a 5. February of this year my PSA jumped to 7.25 and they did the MRI where they found the issue.

My biopsy is next Thursday and I was accepted into the Brown Cancer Center in Louisville, KY. I meet with that team later in April. My only concern is looking through all the doctors profiles on the team none have prostate issues as their main focus.

I’m right now assuming with my age and no signs of spread that removal will be the recommendation. With my enlarged prostate issues causing me so much pain and affecting my daily life I’m thinking that might be the right direction.

Has anyone had experience with the Brown Cancer Center in Louisville, KY? Any other recommended paths?

I did submit for the “Color” genetics testing that was recommended on another post.

I’ve lived a good life and I’m not complaining. This is just part of life but I don’t want to leave my wife alone. That is my biggest concern.

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Prostate Cancer Support Group.

@clandeboye1

ericp502 This report confirms an MRI Guideed Biopsy is superior to a standard Biopsy . i.e Going in blind and performing the old " OFTEN DESCRIBED PINCUSHION BIOPSY " or
" Swiss Cheese Biopsy " -- take lots of random sample cores and hope you hit something .
The latest and ONLY REAL TIME MRI BIOPSY IS " " An In - Bore or Gantry Biopsy . These are rare because of the equipmennt costs . Australia is even using A TESLA T 7 MRI Machine .
The most common worldwide is the Tesla 3T MRI which replaced the 1.5 .
I repeat : An MRI CANNOT CONFIRM OR GRADE PROSTATE CANCER -- ONLY A BIOPSY CAN .
I know Canadian report very well . I live in Canada - I personally know many of the top Urologists and Oncologists at The Princess Margaret Hospital in Toronto - Ranked in the top 5 Research and Cancer Treatment Centers in the World . Also Sunnybrook in Toronnto where the TULSA-PRO Focal therapy was invented by Dr. Gupta , who I know and now practices in the USA . Dr. Laurence Klotz performs the TULSA- PRO at Sunnybrook and was on the original research team .
Sir , I respecctfully request you personally consult with several senior PROSTATE CANCER UROLOGISTS .
Ask the question " Can you determine for certain a patient has prostate cancer and it's grade ( Gleason Score ) from an MRI " ?
I look forward to their names and answer .

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I’m doing exactly as you are suggesting so I really don’t know why you are pushing me to do something different.

I had an MRI done, I’m doing a targeted biopsy, I’m getting multiple opinions. I just haven’t read the book you are suggesting.

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What you are missing is that isn’t what I’m saying. I think you are reading comments with your reply already figured out in your head without actually reading my comment.

I know you are trying to help and I appreciate that but please read my comment below before replying again.

I had an MRI that was read by two radiologists. The MRI report says it identified a spot that is likely Gleason 7+ with a PI-RADS 4 score.

I’m having a targeted biopsy on Thursday to confirm these findings.

I already have a 2nd opinion setup with the Brown Cancer Center and working on a 3rd opinion from Mayo Clinic.

What am I doing wrong that you are so against here?

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@ericp502 I fully understand the RADS 4 potential for cancer - BUT NOT 100 % . You are being proactive in requesting a 2nd or even a 3rd opinion of your Gleason Score . You should also consider John Hopkins in Baltimore .
As I noted on this forum several times. My 1st Transperineal MRI Fusion Biopsy was NEGATIVE , which was in conflict with my MRI RADS 5 Score . My 2nd Biopsy was 6 Cores out of 16 Gleason 3 +3 = 6 . A 2nd Opinion ALL 6 Cores were upgraded to Gleason 3 +4 =7 . Favourable intermediate . Finally a 3rd Opinion -- 4 Cores Gleason 6 , 2 Cores Gleason 3 +4 = 7
I am 85 years young - generally in excellent health and currently on active surveillance .
Good luck with your Biopsy . Keep me updated .
p.s. My Biopsies were a walk in the park , without an anaesthetic . This is the common practice in Canada .

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@ericp502

I’m doing exactly as you are suggesting so I really don’t know why you are pushing me to do something different.

I had an MRI done, I’m doing a targeted biopsy, I’m getting multiple opinions. I just haven’t read the book you are suggesting.

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@ericp This book is highly recommended by several members on this forum -- Money well spent .
I am a Prostate Cancer Advocate . I recommend it to ALL of my referrals . In Canada , USA , the UK , Germany and Australia .
Once again - GOOD Luck with your Biopsy . All on this forum are commmenting in your best interest .
p.s. Noone is forcing you to make any alternate decisions . An educated member, acting as his own best advocate , makes the final decision in concert with his family . Not the Urologist . Oncologist , Medical Oncologist or others -- ONLY YOU AND YOUR FAMILY .

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@clandeboye1

@jeffmarc Am I missing something . @ ericp502 on this forum insists .
" YOU CAN CONFIRM A PATIENT HAS PROSTATE CANCER AND CAN TELL IT'S GRADE FROM AN MRI ALONE " --- I respectfully disagree .
Your thoughts .

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I was just hearing about this recently, I looked into it and did find they were finding seven and 7+, Not sure whether 7+ is a 4+3 or somewhere above a 3+4.

As for the technical answer

Prostate MRI and Gleason Score Prediction: Multiparametric prostate MRI (MP-MRI) combined with factors like PSA density can predict biopsy Gleason scores with reasonable accuracy pre-biopsy. For example, models using MRI findings and PSA density showed high correlation with biopsy Gleason scores in research studies

They do expect technology like this to replace the biopsy.

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@clandeboye1

@ericp502 I fully understand the RADS 4 potential for cancer - BUT NOT 100 % . You are being proactive in requesting a 2nd or even a 3rd opinion of your Gleason Score . You should also consider John Hopkins in Baltimore .
As I noted on this forum several times. My 1st Transperineal MRI Fusion Biopsy was NEGATIVE , which was in conflict with my MRI RADS 5 Score . My 2nd Biopsy was 6 Cores out of 16 Gleason 3 +3 = 6 . A 2nd Opinion ALL 6 Cores were upgraded to Gleason 3 +4 =7 . Favourable intermediate . Finally a 3rd Opinion -- 4 Cores Gleason 6 , 2 Cores Gleason 3 +4 = 7
I am 85 years young - generally in excellent health and currently on active surveillance .
Good luck with your Biopsy . Keep me updated .
p.s. My Biopsies were a walk in the park , without an anaesthetic . This is the common practice in Canada .

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I opted for putting me out. I do fine on propofol and prefer not to remember the experience.

My last urologist did a bladder scope and assured me it was a walk in the park. He lied. Horrible experience and the worst medical experience I’ve ever had.

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@jeffmarc

I was just hearing about this recently, I looked into it and did find they were finding seven and 7+, Not sure whether 7+ is a 4+3 or somewhere above a 3+4.

As for the technical answer

Prostate MRI and Gleason Score Prediction: Multiparametric prostate MRI (MP-MRI) combined with factors like PSA density can predict biopsy Gleason scores with reasonable accuracy pre-biopsy. For example, models using MRI findings and PSA density showed high correlation with biopsy Gleason scores in research studies

They do expect technology like this to replace the biopsy.

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@jeffmarc. I agree - but we are not there yet .
AI will advance the medical profession at warp speed .
Keep well .

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@ericp502 A final comment .
When making an EDUCATED decision on treatment , remember UROLOGISTS want to perform surgery - RADIATION ONCOLOGISTS , want to radiate . It's in their job description .
There are many other options out there . The current prevailing standard of care for Gleason 3 +3 = 6 and Gleason 3 +4 =7 , Plus SELECTIVE , Gleason 4 +3 = 7 , is Active Surveillance .

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@clandeboye1

@ericp502 A final comment .
When making an EDUCATED decision on treatment , remember UROLOGISTS want to perform surgery - RADIATION ONCOLOGISTS , want to radiate . It's in their job description .
There are many other options out there . The current prevailing standard of care for Gleason 3 +3 = 6 and Gleason 3 +4 =7 , Plus SELECTIVE , Gleason 4 +3 = 7 , is Active Surveillance .

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Eric seems to be doing everything correctly IMO. While an MRI is extremely helpful when it is combined with other factors such as PSA density and velocity in making “predictive” Gleason scores, ONLY the biopsy can find cribriform or ductal cribriform cell patterns consistent with a more aggressive cancer.
So even a predicted Gleason 3+4 or 4+3 takes a much darker turn in the presence of these cells and probably WILL require treatment and not allow the patient to simply monitor using AS.
And eric, cystoscopes are usually painless - I’ve had about 10 of them. Glad you have a new urologist!!
Phil

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@ericp502

Thank you. My biopsy is scheduled this next Thursday but I’m going to check on doing this test this week before the biopsy. Won’t give me results to avoid the biopsy but might be another good marker to make a decision.

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It sounds to me like you are getting your research done effectively and moving forward. I hope you will continue to share the details of your journey as your experiences are helpful to us all. Good catch on noting the absence of prostate cancer being the primary area of practice for some of the physicians you are/were considering. I know that was an important factor when I made my physician selections. Best of luck on the biopsy!
Bill

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