Why does the medical field shy away from toxic neuropathy?

Posted by fairwinds24 @fairwinds24, Oct 20 1:29pm

As a retired person in 2016 I found a need to supplement my SSI and took a job as an EVS worker in a medical complex of buildings for Baylor, Scott,and White in Waco, TX. I started in 2/20 and was out by 6/23, working full time using a variety of industrial grade cleaning chemicals by Diversy and Ecolab. Approximately 1 month before leaving I attempted to file a WC claim due to some very noticeable skin irritations, high WBC, and spasms in right thumb, which led to a sustained numbness across the top of right hand. The problem came from the dermal absorption of mostly a cleaning agent called Ecolab A-456 2 disinfectant cleaner regularly everday, and having only the thin nitrile exam room gloves to protect hands, the kind they sell on amazon for .04 cents each in bulk. A more appropriate glove would cost around a $1.00 a pair. At this point i had an ALJ hearing this month with the WC and they have kept denying all evidence as usual. When starting the hearing on the 10th this month the first question from the ALJ was " what is PPE ?" any help here would be appreciated

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Thank you for your comeback, Am trying to reply back to all messages received and just now read yours and will get back soon.

REPLY
@cheyne

Hi,
Autoimmune is the body destroying it's system, Autonomia is the damage caused to the Autonomic nerve system, by other causes. Neither have a cure and there are very limited treatments. With Autonomic neuropathy (ANS) there are no treatments currently known. If you are able to detox you didn't have either. I believe a plasma infusion can aid autoimmune problems but are short term fixes as you need to stop the body doing the damage to itself.
I had a friend who had to get plasma infusions every month just to survive until the next infusion.
With autonomic neuropathy it can be totally random episodes, permanent features or a mixture of both. If you are lucky enough to have Autonomic polyneuropathy as I do, then both major nerve systems, autonomic and peripheral nerves are compromised and life gets to be hell, the only cure I have discovered is death! Your life is no longer up to you, ANS takes over dictating how your body might react at any given time, from stopping the heart instantly without warning to affecting your organs and even permanently affecting your BP. You either sit and wait for ANS to take you or you get on with life as best you can trying to forget ANS exists. The best feature of ANS is everybody dies sooner or later so no surprises there, life continues until it doesn't, all you can do is fill every moment you have as best you can.
Cheers

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The bad thing is just not the Bp. I dislike the tachycardia and bradycardia. It gets in your kidneys and bladder. There is nothing they can do about the heart.The cardiologist and electrophysiologist gave me 8 years to live. 4 are gone repeated the one month holter monitor test and the bradycardia and tachycardia are worse. Medication for the arrhythmias did not help
They can’t use a pacemaker because it goes off the nerve conduction. Wait until you start having seizures with it.

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@artemis1886

The bad thing is just not the Bp. I dislike the tachycardia and bradycardia. It gets in your kidneys and bladder. There is nothing they can do about the heart.The cardiologist and electrophysiologist gave me 8 years to live. 4 are gone repeated the one month holter monitor test and the bradycardia and tachycardia are worse. Medication for the arrhythmias did not help
They can’t use a pacemaker because it goes off the nerve conduction. Wait until you start having seizures with it.

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Hi,
Unfortunately you're not wrong.
I have outlived my death sentence given by my previous Dr. My only recourse is to remind the Dr every time I see her in passing, I'm still here and very much alive, thank you. She gave me five years and I have snatched seven plus. Anymore is at the discretion of ANS.
To date my entire digestive system from end to end is compromised and under the whims of ANS, this is now a permanent feature. My BP, brain, eyes, limbs, stability, ears, hand eye coordination, temporary memory loss and other minor feature have become a daily obstacle course to wonder through. Just when I think I have a handle on it all I get hit with short term temporary paralysis from the waist down, usually stopping mid stripe and unable to command a move for a few minutes. Really weird feeling looking down at my feet unable to persuade from the waist down to move, like I'm wearing concrete boots. Then I might find I have lost the ability to speak, not knowing how to action the muscles to speak, felt like a right idiot, the brain searching rapidly for the tools to make speech. Touch wood my heart remains mainly unaffected by it all only giving me short periods of AF, just enough to shake up ED. But this is my life and I do whatever I can to fight on. I don't have a thirst for life particularly and have visited death before. All I can do is live each day as fullest I can trying not to waste a minute of it that I get to use.
Cheers

REPLY
@cheyne

Hi,
Unfortunately you're not wrong.
I have outlived my death sentence given by my previous Dr. My only recourse is to remind the Dr every time I see her in passing, I'm still here and very much alive, thank you. She gave me five years and I have snatched seven plus. Anymore is at the discretion of ANS.
To date my entire digestive system from end to end is compromised and under the whims of ANS, this is now a permanent feature. My BP, brain, eyes, limbs, stability, ears, hand eye coordination, temporary memory loss and other minor feature have become a daily obstacle course to wonder through. Just when I think I have a handle on it all I get hit with short term temporary paralysis from the waist down, usually stopping mid stripe and unable to command a move for a few minutes. Really weird feeling looking down at my feet unable to persuade from the waist down to move, like I'm wearing concrete boots. Then I might find I have lost the ability to speak, not knowing how to action the muscles to speak, felt like a right idiot, the brain searching rapidly for the tools to make speech. Touch wood my heart remains mainly unaffected by it all only giving me short periods of AF, just enough to shake up ED. But this is my life and I do whatever I can to fight on. I don't have a thirst for life particularly and have visited death before. All I can do is live each day as fullest I can trying not to waste a minute of it that I get to use.
Cheers

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I am sorry you’re going through this but Thanks for sharing. I feel like I am the only one enduring this craziness with the gastroparesis and everything else. I occasionally go see a research neurologist in Boston when the doctors here in Texas get stumped. My seizures have been linked to the neuropathy. They tell you it can’t affect the brain yet it does.

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@fairwinds24

ALJ stands for administrative law judge who listens to a plaintiff and defendent with no witnesses and makes a determination on contested cases involving state workmans compensation claims. Mine was october 10th and proved to be a horribly biased decision with a lack of looking at the evidence. I will appeal, and am looking into a civil case in the regular court system to get away from the workmans comp arena.

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as a former lab safety professional I can attest that nitrile gloves are NOT designed to be chemical resistant in almost all cases
I've attached one manufacturer's information
there's probably more out there
Do you have access to the Material Safety Data Sheet for the product you were exposed to in the workplace?
what was the written policy on preparing the solution for use and was it followed?
we often ran into folks who did not get adequate training and had no written standard operating procedures for making up the solutions for cleaning...
https://www.dartmouth.edu/ehs/chemical/nitrile_gloves_chemical_resistance_guide.pdf

Shared files

Kimberly Clarg nitrile_gloves_chemical_resistance_guide (Kimberly-Clarg-nitrile_gloves_chemical_resistance_guide.pdf)

REPLY
@artemis1886

I am sorry you’re going through this but Thanks for sharing. I feel like I am the only one enduring this craziness with the gastroparesis and everything else. I occasionally go see a research neurologist in Boston when the doctors here in Texas get stumped. My seizures have been linked to the neuropathy. They tell you it can’t affect the brain yet it does.

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Hi,
While it doesn't affect the brain directly as in a brain disease or damage, it does compromise the brain's ability to interpret corrupted signal it receives through the compromised nerves. Respectively it in turn sends out signals through compromised nerves to the appropriate muscles to do their thing. Sadly with the nerves being the "glue" that ties it all together can't make head nor tail of the instruction and we get corrupted signals to the muscles, either freezing, jittering or confusion, worst case we actually do something right!
For me when I strike a problem trying to step it is as though the brain sends out the usual signal to make tracks, it then figures I sent that signal so we are now stepping and I should follow up with the other foot stepping. Sadly the first step never got accomplished as the signal was corrupted and nothing happened other than I got down to kiss the wonderful ground beneath me, I stumble or fall. In the rear occasion neither leg gets the signals and I'm glued to the ground for a few minutes until the eyes get in on the act and say hay you didn't move, lets try that again. Now with this happening often the brain has learnt to catch me because the eyes see the earth hasn't moved beneath me, so get another signal out quick smart to catch myself before that beloved Papal kiss!
It amazes me how well the brain can re-educate itself to correct some of the deficiencies that are developing. Sadly it can't re educate the corrupted nerves to get it right. I always figured I could do anything, it just takes me time to figure out how to accomplish it.
I can't say the fight goes on, because frankly the ANS hasn't decided to let me join the fight, it insists on playing it's own silly game to which I'm the bystander.
Cheers

REPLY
@dlydailyhope

@fairwinds24
Employers, workers compensation, etc. don’t want to open up a Pandora’s box with your claim as others may have similar claims and they don’t want to be liable. They deny claims hooping you go away but you need to keep pursuing and appealing with the help of a lawyer.

It would be good to get some specialized bloodwork now to check for toxins. Have you had a neurologist test you for small fiber neuropathy using a skin punch biopsy? Have you had EMG/nerve conduction studies? Have you had a MRI of your cervical spine to see if the numbness in your hand is tied to your neck?

Did your employer have you take job specific training, especially safety/PPE necessary for your work to keep you safe? Did you complete all required training? Can you prove that proper PPE was not provided to workers (like face mask/eye shield, chemical handling gloves, skin covering in cases of splashes, access to areas to rinse eyes/face, hands, etc. in case of exposure? Did you report the poor gloves made available to supervision/leadership or call a reporting line and take good notes of the details (dates/times/names/what discussed)?

Have you ruled out other causes of neuropathy (have you had extensive bloodwork done by your primary doctor or neurologist to check for vitamin deficiencies or toxicities or diabetes)?

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Nerve test done on a referral from hand surgeon who practices in the very building i worked at. In fact saw him daily as the exam rooms were on my floor of designated duties. I got the medical report before doing a follow up with hand surgeon, and it was diagnosed as carpal tunnel syndrome. I had brought up what i knew to be the cause to his nurse at the initial visit, and also with the nerve test doctor. The medical report was not very accurate about various things and had to get an amendment done. At the follow up with hand surgeon it was like he did not know what it was, provided no treatments, and basically showed me the hallway and also he would not return a request for a letter of causation to the state workers comp ombudsman.

Since this all began i have done many hours of research on the topic surrounding toxic neuropathy and it appears to be like the stepchild. My string of medical provider visits started with a dermatologist who called it contact dermatitis possibly from a chemical at work which was spot on. Allergy and asthma patch testing labeled it as a caustic/ irritant dermatitis. Hematologist called it a form of leukocytosis after blood test with high WBC. Four blood test were done over the course of last summer and all were high WBC with the final one done by the hematologist coming in as more acceptable. From there it went on to a nerve test in jan/24.

Employer was Aramark, who is contracted by Baylor, Scott, and White here in waco, tx to do cleaning and linen services. Very limited training and almost no supervision in the use of the chemicals on application and disposal of. The very gloves the EVS personnel used were the same thin gloves the doctors and nurses use. In fact, the emplyer did not stock the gloves themselves in the supplies inventory, we basically grabbed a box from the orthopedics medical supply rooms when needed with no questions ask. 3 mil in the palm and 4 mil in the fingers and says right on the box gloves are intended as a biological barrier and not intended for use agaist chemicals. That as a fact puts a lot of cost savings to employer, clinic when you issue 4 cent a pair gloves to cleaning personnel instead of what should be apprx $ 1.00 +/-.

Need to get busy on things. Thank you for your time and feel free to comment.

REPLY
@terry1976

as a former lab safety professional I can attest that nitrile gloves are NOT designed to be chemical resistant in almost all cases
I've attached one manufacturer's information
there's probably more out there
Do you have access to the Material Safety Data Sheet for the product you were exposed to in the workplace?
what was the written policy on preparing the solution for use and was it followed?
we often ran into folks who did not get adequate training and had no written standard operating procedures for making up the solutions for cleaning...
https://www.dartmouth.edu/ehs/chemical/nitrile_gloves_chemical_resistance_guide.pdf

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thank you for the reply
the box the gloves are in state on the back they are intended for use as a biological barrier and not intended to be used for chemical protection

ecolab is the current chemical company that has dispensers in the complex of buildings i worked in that use 3 different chemicals for cleaning, with A-456 disinfectant cleaner being most in contact with hands...application methods call for the rags and mops to be immersed in the dilluted solution and used in specific way to be effective so it requires a degree of wringing out before applying and in turn where the dermal absorption takes place if gloves are not right thickness

risk assessment by employer Aramark is out to lunch on PPE in the way of gloves because of cost no doubt, but management is very negligent in training and informing employees of the dangers involved using these chemicals...this is not just a user beware problem

REPLY
@cheyne

Hi,
While it doesn't affect the brain directly as in a brain disease or damage, it does compromise the brain's ability to interpret corrupted signal it receives through the compromised nerves. Respectively it in turn sends out signals through compromised nerves to the appropriate muscles to do their thing. Sadly with the nerves being the "glue" that ties it all together can't make head nor tail of the instruction and we get corrupted signals to the muscles, either freezing, jittering or confusion, worst case we actually do something right!
For me when I strike a problem trying to step it is as though the brain sends out the usual signal to make tracks, it then figures I sent that signal so we are now stepping and I should follow up with the other foot stepping. Sadly the first step never got accomplished as the signal was corrupted and nothing happened other than I got down to kiss the wonderful ground beneath me, I stumble or fall. In the rear occasion neither leg gets the signals and I'm glued to the ground for a few minutes until the eyes get in on the act and say hay you didn't move, lets try that again. Now with this happening often the brain has learnt to catch me because the eyes see the earth hasn't moved beneath me, so get another signal out quick smart to catch myself before that beloved Papal kiss!
It amazes me how well the brain can re-educate itself to correct some of the deficiencies that are developing. Sadly it can't re educate the corrupted nerves to get it right. I always figured I could do anything, it just takes me time to figure out how to accomplish it.
I can't say the fight goes on, because frankly the ANS hasn't decided to let me join the fight, it insists on playing it's own silly game to which I'm the bystander.
Cheers

Jump to this post

Actually, I am currently part on a study that is showing autonomic neuropathy does affect the pain. It’s pretty interesting. The research neurologist picked me due to my symptoms out of nowhere I started having seizures and other problems. She has been researching neuropathy since before 2015.

REPLY
@artemis1886

Actually, I am currently part on a study that is showing autonomic neuropathy does affect the pain. It’s pretty interesting. The research neurologist picked me due to my symptoms out of nowhere I started having seizures and other problems. She has been researching neuropathy since before 2015.

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Hi,
Fingers crossed, I hope it goes well for you.
Cheers

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