surgery even with an osteoporosis diagnosis

Posted by debbiem @debbiem, Jan 28 4:16pm

Has anyone had surgery even though they've had an osteoporosis diagnosis? If so, was surgery successful? I had to postpone neck surgery due to a T-score of -3.7 on my latest DEXA scan. Surgeon is fearful of a failed surgery, if my bones aren't strong enough to hold the pins. I thought I read somewhere of someone who had multiple successful surgeries even with a T-score of -5.8. Surgeon wants me on Forteo, but after reading and researching about the side effects, I'm VERY hesitant about going on it.

My DEXA scan score is -5.7 and I had brain surgery, back surgery and a hip replacement WHILE I had a fractured wrist from osteoporosis! I did fine! I'm glad you are thinking long and hard about Forteo or any of those bisphosphonate drugs. I have been researching night and day – reading Ph.D.-level nutritional textbooks and reading everything I can get my hands on. I am in a support group for women with osteoporosis that do not want to take those drugs. We are all doing this by modifications to our diet and taking supplements. I must say: Be sure to run this past your doctor first! (But don't be surprised if your doctor does't know much about Vitamin K2.) There are two nutritionists in the group. I am taking vitamins D3 and K2 (mk4 mk7). Vitamin D3 is necessary for bone growth AND it reduces falls in people over 50 by more than 50%. Dr. John Cannell recommends a dose of 4,000 IU daily at least. You can get a blood test to see what your level is now. It should be over 50 ng/ml. Mine was at 3 when I started over a dozen years ago – it is up to 80-90 ng/ml now. I NEVER get a cold or flu – it really protects your body. Vitamin K2 (mk4 mk7) tells the calcium to go to your bones – not your arteries and not your kidneys (so no kidney stones). You can't really eat these vitamins – the food that contains them doesn't contain enough or is too unpleasant (try Natto). I keep track of the calcium I'm getting in food (there are apps for your phone to help you). I subtract what I get in food from what my body needs (1200 mg), and I take a calcium supplement for what I'm not getting. You also need magnesium. Calcium and magnesium are both minerals and they will compete for absorption. Your body can only absorb 500-600 mg every four hours of these two minerals. So if your calcium tablet is 1000 mg, break it in half and take the other half four hours or more later. I also take 3 mg of boron, once in the morning and once at night. You do not want to overdo the boron – the upper limit is 20 mg per day and it must be respected/. The good news is that tiny dose of boron has gotten rid of my horrible osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis. Completely gone! I can make a fist – I can flatten my hand out – it's amazing. Be sure to run it past your doctor. Many of the women on the support group have posted greatly improved DEXA scans scores. I will be having my scan done in a couple of months. I have't been doing this regimen for very long – but I hope it is long enough to show improvement. My last fracture was in 2018 – so there's a bit of good news. I just want to encourage women to think about nutrition instead of those horrible drugs. Or even if you insist on doing those drugs – do the nutrition thing right at the same time and just hope the drug doesn't cause the nutrients to leave the body. The mk4 and mk7 part of Vitamin K2 (mk4 mk7) just means that is the K2 that is right for the human body. Other animals need different kinds of K2. I am going to put an article link about K2 here – but in case it gets removed by the moderators, just Google Ultimate K2 Resource by Chris Masterjohn and it should find it – it is fascinating to read. I showed it to my friend who is a doctor and he bought a bottle of K2 (mk4 mk7) to give to me! Good luck to all of us on the journey. https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/blog/2016/12/09/the-ultimate-vitamin-k2-resource. By the way, the best calcium to get is coral, oyster shell, egg shells that have been sterilized – you can find these where ever you buy your supplements. Stay away from anything that has citrate in the name. It also helps to take a GOOD vitamin C (not ascorbic acid), a good Omega 3, stay off sugar as much as possible (that includes fruit and bread), and NO CARBONATED BEVERAGES! Carbonated beverages rob your body of phosphorus – and that is necessary for bone growth. I know, I had a major diet cola addiction my entire life. I've been off sugar and cola for five years on April 2, 2020. I've been studying nutrition since April 2, 2015. It is fascinating and my body has not been this heathy since I was a baby! Good luck everyone.

REPLY
@parrotqueen

My DEXA scan score is -5.7 and I had brain surgery, back surgery and a hip replacement WHILE I had a fractured wrist from osteoporosis! I did fine! I'm glad you are thinking long and hard about Forteo or any of those bisphosphonate drugs. I have been researching night and day – reading Ph.D.-level nutritional textbooks and reading everything I can get my hands on. I am in a support group for women with osteoporosis that do not want to take those drugs. We are all doing this by modifications to our diet and taking supplements. I must say: Be sure to run this past your doctor first! (But don't be surprised if your doctor does't know much about Vitamin K2.) There are two nutritionists in the group. I am taking vitamins D3 and K2 (mk4 mk7). Vitamin D3 is necessary for bone growth AND it reduces falls in people over 50 by more than 50%. Dr. John Cannell recommends a dose of 4,000 IU daily at least. You can get a blood test to see what your level is now. It should be over 50 ng/ml. Mine was at 3 when I started over a dozen years ago – it is up to 80-90 ng/ml now. I NEVER get a cold or flu – it really protects your body. Vitamin K2 (mk4 mk7) tells the calcium to go to your bones – not your arteries and not your kidneys (so no kidney stones). You can't really eat these vitamins – the food that contains them doesn't contain enough or is too unpleasant (try Natto). I keep track of the calcium I'm getting in food (there are apps for your phone to help you). I subtract what I get in food from what my body needs (1200 mg), and I take a calcium supplement for what I'm not getting. You also need magnesium. Calcium and magnesium are both minerals and they will compete for absorption. Your body can only absorb 500-600 mg every four hours of these two minerals. So if your calcium tablet is 1000 mg, break it in half and take the other half four hours or more later. I also take 3 mg of boron, once in the morning and once at night. You do not want to overdo the boron – the upper limit is 20 mg per day and it must be respected/. The good news is that tiny dose of boron has gotten rid of my horrible osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis. Completely gone! I can make a fist – I can flatten my hand out – it's amazing. Be sure to run it past your doctor. Many of the women on the support group have posted greatly improved DEXA scans scores. I will be having my scan done in a couple of months. I have't been doing this regimen for very long – but I hope it is long enough to show improvement. My last fracture was in 2018 – so there's a bit of good news. I just want to encourage women to think about nutrition instead of those horrible drugs. Or even if you insist on doing those drugs – do the nutrition thing right at the same time and just hope the drug doesn't cause the nutrients to leave the body. The mk4 and mk7 part of Vitamin K2 (mk4 mk7) just means that is the K2 that is right for the human body. Other animals need different kinds of K2. I am going to put an article link about K2 here – but in case it gets removed by the moderators, just Google Ultimate K2 Resource by Chris Masterjohn and it should find it – it is fascinating to read. I showed it to my friend who is a doctor and he bought a bottle of K2 (mk4 mk7) to give to me! Good luck to all of us on the journey. https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/blog/2016/12/09/the-ultimate-vitamin-k2-resource. By the way, the best calcium to get is coral, oyster shell, egg shells that have been sterilized – you can find these where ever you buy your supplements. Stay away from anything that has citrate in the name. It also helps to take a GOOD vitamin C (not ascorbic acid), a good Omega 3, stay off sugar as much as possible (that includes fruit and bread), and NO CARBONATED BEVERAGES! Carbonated beverages rob your body of phosphorus – and that is necessary for bone growth. I know, I had a major diet cola addiction my entire life. I've been off sugar and cola for five years on April 2, 2020. I've been studying nutrition since April 2, 2015. It is fascinating and my body has not been this heathy since I was a baby! Good luck everyone.

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Good advice, but I would like to point out that Forteo and Tymlos are NOT biophosphonates. They are the only drugs that build bone. I had some loss of appetite and nausea problems when I first started taking Tymlos, but that passed. It's a daily injection — so if I'm not feeling well I can stop it for a couple of days. After a year on Tymlos, I just had my bone scan and the Tscores in my spine are all in the mormal range. I am doing lots of research now, because my MD recommends Reclast after I finish the Tymlos and I won'd do that, so I am looking deeper into nutrition. My diet is good now, but it's always possible to improve. Good luck.

REPLY
@parrotqueen

My DEXA scan score is -5.7 and I had brain surgery, back surgery and a hip replacement WHILE I had a fractured wrist from osteoporosis! I did fine! I'm glad you are thinking long and hard about Forteo or any of those bisphosphonate drugs. I have been researching night and day – reading Ph.D.-level nutritional textbooks and reading everything I can get my hands on. I am in a support group for women with osteoporosis that do not want to take those drugs. We are all doing this by modifications to our diet and taking supplements. I must say: Be sure to run this past your doctor first! (But don't be surprised if your doctor does't know much about Vitamin K2.) There are two nutritionists in the group. I am taking vitamins D3 and K2 (mk4 mk7). Vitamin D3 is necessary for bone growth AND it reduces falls in people over 50 by more than 50%. Dr. John Cannell recommends a dose of 4,000 IU daily at least. You can get a blood test to see what your level is now. It should be over 50 ng/ml. Mine was at 3 when I started over a dozen years ago – it is up to 80-90 ng/ml now. I NEVER get a cold or flu – it really protects your body. Vitamin K2 (mk4 mk7) tells the calcium to go to your bones – not your arteries and not your kidneys (so no kidney stones). You can't really eat these vitamins – the food that contains them doesn't contain enough or is too unpleasant (try Natto). I keep track of the calcium I'm getting in food (there are apps for your phone to help you). I subtract what I get in food from what my body needs (1200 mg), and I take a calcium supplement for what I'm not getting. You also need magnesium. Calcium and magnesium are both minerals and they will compete for absorption. Your body can only absorb 500-600 mg every four hours of these two minerals. So if your calcium tablet is 1000 mg, break it in half and take the other half four hours or more later. I also take 3 mg of boron, once in the morning and once at night. You do not want to overdo the boron – the upper limit is 20 mg per day and it must be respected/. The good news is that tiny dose of boron has gotten rid of my horrible osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis. Completely gone! I can make a fist – I can flatten my hand out – it's amazing. Be sure to run it past your doctor. Many of the women on the support group have posted greatly improved DEXA scans scores. I will be having my scan done in a couple of months. I have't been doing this regimen for very long – but I hope it is long enough to show improvement. My last fracture was in 2018 – so there's a bit of good news. I just want to encourage women to think about nutrition instead of those horrible drugs. Or even if you insist on doing those drugs – do the nutrition thing right at the same time and just hope the drug doesn't cause the nutrients to leave the body. The mk4 and mk7 part of Vitamin K2 (mk4 mk7) just means that is the K2 that is right for the human body. Other animals need different kinds of K2. I am going to put an article link about K2 here – but in case it gets removed by the moderators, just Google Ultimate K2 Resource by Chris Masterjohn and it should find it – it is fascinating to read. I showed it to my friend who is a doctor and he bought a bottle of K2 (mk4 mk7) to give to me! Good luck to all of us on the journey. https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/blog/2016/12/09/the-ultimate-vitamin-k2-resource. By the way, the best calcium to get is coral, oyster shell, egg shells that have been sterilized – you can find these where ever you buy your supplements. Stay away from anything that has citrate in the name. It also helps to take a GOOD vitamin C (not ascorbic acid), a good Omega 3, stay off sugar as much as possible (that includes fruit and bread), and NO CARBONATED BEVERAGES! Carbonated beverages rob your body of phosphorus – and that is necessary for bone growth. I know, I had a major diet cola addiction my entire life. I've been off sugar and cola for five years on April 2, 2020. I've been studying nutrition since April 2, 2015. It is fascinating and my body has not been this heathy since I was a baby! Good luck everyone.

Jump to this post

Thank you for all the info you took time to share, I, too, do LOTS of research, study nutrition, diet, natural alternatives….have done so for over 30 years, Here's an interesting article on the whole K1-K2 question that I came across. https://healthresource.shaklee.com/vitamin-k1-vs-k2/

I take all the supplements recommended for osteoporosis, as well as eat a very clean, organic diet. Any meat we eat has been raised on our daughter's farm/ranch with no antibiotics, corn products, chemicals, etc. We don't have processed foods in the home and I cook everything from scratch. I exercise, do OsteoStrong, stay hydrated and get 9-10 hrs of sleep a night. All my blood tests are good….D3 levels are very good. I am small build and underweight…something I've worked hard at correcting but struggle with daily.

That said, my doctor is pretty sure I developed the T-scores I have (-3.3 and -3.7) due to high prednisone use when I had a vascular stent I was allergic to about 2 yrs ago. That's why I'm questioning testing for bone strength and not just taking a DEXA scan result as sole determination for the need for drugs. My grandmother and mother both had OP and neither ever had a broken bone.

It is encouraging to read other people's experiences and hear their take on things. I meet with my PC dr today to discuss the plan moving forward. Then meet with the surgeon in a couple weeks. At this point I'm wanting to give OsteoStrong a chance!

REPLY
@cireland

Good advice, but I would like to point out that Forteo and Tymlos are NOT biophosphonates. They are the only drugs that build bone. I had some loss of appetite and nausea problems when I first started taking Tymlos, but that passed. It's a daily injection — so if I'm not feeling well I can stop it for a couple of days. After a year on Tymlos, I just had my bone scan and the Tscores in my spine are all in the mormal range. I am doing lots of research now, because my MD recommends Reclast after I finish the Tymlos and I won'd do that, so I am looking deeper into nutrition. My diet is good now, but it's always possible to improve. Good luck.

Jump to this post

My fear of bisphosphonates is doubled for Forteo and Tymlos. I'm glad you are happy taking these drugs. I will continue building bone using calcium, magnesium, Vitamin D3, Vitamin K2 (mk4 mk7), and boron and grass-fed beef collagen. I can understand that feeling that you have to do something to get your bones back. I just prefer to use what naturally works in the body. Good luck to you Cireland. We are all on this same journey.

REPLY
@debbiem

Thank you for all the info you took time to share, I, too, do LOTS of research, study nutrition, diet, natural alternatives….have done so for over 30 years, Here's an interesting article on the whole K1-K2 question that I came across. https://healthresource.shaklee.com/vitamin-k1-vs-k2/

I take all the supplements recommended for osteoporosis, as well as eat a very clean, organic diet. Any meat we eat has been raised on our daughter's farm/ranch with no antibiotics, corn products, chemicals, etc. We don't have processed foods in the home and I cook everything from scratch. I exercise, do OsteoStrong, stay hydrated and get 9-10 hrs of sleep a night. All my blood tests are good….D3 levels are very good. I am small build and underweight…something I've worked hard at correcting but struggle with daily.

That said, my doctor is pretty sure I developed the T-scores I have (-3.3 and -3.7) due to high prednisone use when I had a vascular stent I was allergic to about 2 yrs ago. That's why I'm questioning testing for bone strength and not just taking a DEXA scan result as sole determination for the need for drugs. My grandmother and mother both had OP and neither ever had a broken bone.

It is encouraging to read other people's experiences and hear their take on things. I meet with my PC dr today to discuss the plan moving forward. Then meet with the surgeon in a couple weeks. At this point I'm wanting to give OsteoStrong a chance!

Jump to this post

Thank you for the reference Debbiem. It sounds like we could be twins – I am also small. I'm so glad I was finally able to put on some weight – I was wearing children's clothes until a year ago! I think my bones suffered because of my diet cola habit, the fact that I was on steroids for a long time when they thought I had myasthenia Gravis, and for extremely bad allergies to a house I lived in (carpets, blinds and paint were off gassing formaldehyde and I developed very bad asthma), and also the pituitary tumor I had caused adrenal, thyroid and human growth hormone deficiencies. I now am prescribed Human Growth Hormone. I also decided to go on a low dose of estrogen (two-thirds of a 0.025 estrogen patch twice weekly) and progesterone to try to turn my bone loss around. I hope to go off the estrogen before summer. Now I only eat organic, air-chilled chicken, grass-fed, grass-finished, no steroids or hormones beef, organic vegetables low in sugar, and no fruit except a bit of lemon juice in my salad dressing and 4 or 5 berries a day. I don't eat bread, fruit, vinegar, dairy, beans, peas, root vegetables, etc. Like you, I do not eat prepared food – only what I cook from scratch. I try for 100% organic but sometimes I eat nuts that are not organic. I have been on the no-sugar diet for only five years. I will never go back to eating sugar again – I'm convinced it is the very devil.

My mom did not have osteoporosis, but she stayed on Premarin until the day she died at 91.

I am now researching anti-nutrients. I'm concerned that some of my supplements may have the anti-nutrients in them.

Because I desperately need shoulder replacement, I am only doing walking, walking and more walking. I live in a hilly area, so I am trying to do a lot of uphill walking. I've heard good things about OsteoStrong! Keep us posted on your progress.

I will read the Vitamin K1 and K2 article once I have finished the anti-nutrient article. I need to order some calcium and magnesium, but I don't want to do that until I have read about the anti-nutrients.

REPLY
@parrotqueen

My DEXA scan score is -5.7 and I had brain surgery, back surgery and a hip replacement WHILE I had a fractured wrist from osteoporosis! I did fine! I'm glad you are thinking long and hard about Forteo or any of those bisphosphonate drugs. I have been researching night and day – reading Ph.D.-level nutritional textbooks and reading everything I can get my hands on. I am in a support group for women with osteoporosis that do not want to take those drugs. We are all doing this by modifications to our diet and taking supplements. I must say: Be sure to run this past your doctor first! (But don't be surprised if your doctor does't know much about Vitamin K2.) There are two nutritionists in the group. I am taking vitamins D3 and K2 (mk4 mk7). Vitamin D3 is necessary for bone growth AND it reduces falls in people over 50 by more than 50%. Dr. John Cannell recommends a dose of 4,000 IU daily at least. You can get a blood test to see what your level is now. It should be over 50 ng/ml. Mine was at 3 when I started over a dozen years ago – it is up to 80-90 ng/ml now. I NEVER get a cold or flu – it really protects your body. Vitamin K2 (mk4 mk7) tells the calcium to go to your bones – not your arteries and not your kidneys (so no kidney stones). You can't really eat these vitamins – the food that contains them doesn't contain enough or is too unpleasant (try Natto). I keep track of the calcium I'm getting in food (there are apps for your phone to help you). I subtract what I get in food from what my body needs (1200 mg), and I take a calcium supplement for what I'm not getting. You also need magnesium. Calcium and magnesium are both minerals and they will compete for absorption. Your body can only absorb 500-600 mg every four hours of these two minerals. So if your calcium tablet is 1000 mg, break it in half and take the other half four hours or more later. I also take 3 mg of boron, once in the morning and once at night. You do not want to overdo the boron – the upper limit is 20 mg per day and it must be respected/. The good news is that tiny dose of boron has gotten rid of my horrible osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis. Completely gone! I can make a fist – I can flatten my hand out – it's amazing. Be sure to run it past your doctor. Many of the women on the support group have posted greatly improved DEXA scans scores. I will be having my scan done in a couple of months. I have't been doing this regimen for very long – but I hope it is long enough to show improvement. My last fracture was in 2018 – so there's a bit of good news. I just want to encourage women to think about nutrition instead of those horrible drugs. Or even if you insist on doing those drugs – do the nutrition thing right at the same time and just hope the drug doesn't cause the nutrients to leave the body. The mk4 and mk7 part of Vitamin K2 (mk4 mk7) just means that is the K2 that is right for the human body. Other animals need different kinds of K2. I am going to put an article link about K2 here – but in case it gets removed by the moderators, just Google Ultimate K2 Resource by Chris Masterjohn and it should find it – it is fascinating to read. I showed it to my friend who is a doctor and he bought a bottle of K2 (mk4 mk7) to give to me! Good luck to all of us on the journey. https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/blog/2016/12/09/the-ultimate-vitamin-k2-resource. By the way, the best calcium to get is coral, oyster shell, egg shells that have been sterilized – you can find these where ever you buy your supplements. Stay away from anything that has citrate in the name. It also helps to take a GOOD vitamin C (not ascorbic acid), a good Omega 3, stay off sugar as much as possible (that includes fruit and bread), and NO CARBONATED BEVERAGES! Carbonated beverages rob your body of phosphorus – and that is necessary for bone growth. I know, I had a major diet cola addiction my entire life. I've been off sugar and cola for five years on April 2, 2020. I've been studying nutrition since April 2, 2015. It is fascinating and my body has not been this heathy since I was a baby! Good luck everyone.

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Why should we not take calcium citrate…I had a high school chemistry teacher say to take it and I read it is more easily absorbed. You are very knowledgeable and so maybe you can provide a link? Thanks for all your sharing. 🙂

REPLY

I think the De made right decision. I have same numbers as you on Dex scam and my back surgery failed. Cage is against my spine now I have a pain stimulator.

REPLY
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