Requesting opinions on Pelvic Floor Trainers

Great question.
Please don't buy the KGoal.
I've got one in my bedside drawer, if you want it.

I'm terminally useless at Kegels. After 6 months of trying - pre & post-op - my physio gave up & fled to Canada.

I was using it for ages & thought I was doing the right thing - but I was actually doing the opposite.
I made the thing work by relaxing the muscles instead of squeezing them. I think.
Either way, it didn't do anything.
A fun device, but ineffective.
Or I'm just stupid. Yeah.... let's go with that.

Can't fault their service, though. I emailed back-and-forth asking for advice.
They were very nice, but none of their advice worked.
My Canadian refugee told me my pelvic floor was too tight to move.

I practiced Pilates for years. This was prior to being diagnosed with PCa. Pilates exercises develop a person's "core", which includes the pelvic floor. When my RO looked at one of my scans, I think it was the MRI, he exclaimed at how highly developed my pelvic floor is. Look at this, he said, as if I might know how unusual what I was seeing was. The structure he was pointing to was much thicker than he usually sees, and a completely different shape, he said.

I'm suspicious of any easy route to develop a muscle, i.e. with some electronic device. The NCI designated cancer center I'm being treated at has therapists who counsel patients on how to develop their pelvic floor muscles as they prepare for prostate surgery. I favor learning how to control these muscles rather than looking for some way to not learn, by having some device just do it for you.

@peterj116 That's good to know. I believe the one you bought was about $180 or so? And interacted with a phone with games or something. I thought that was interesting. The other I mentioned states it provides a certain vibration that helps to activate and stimulate nerves that are 3 inches up. That one is $60.00.....which is 50% off....(today only) forever and on every add I've see for it. That gives me some suspicions alone.
So you don't think the kGoal Boost did anything for you then?
Isn't sad we are all reaching so hard for answers and solutions? I'm a year out from the surgery and there isn't much happening down there by itself but I'm using a pump to I guess condition things so the tissues remain elastic should things come around eventually.
I sure appreciate your input!

@climateguy I can't speak of PelviPulse - although I did consider a device that just zaps you & moves the muscles for you. But I wanted to move the muscles myself, which is why I went with the KGoal - which is basically a balloon thing that you sit on & move the right muscles to make it work.
Turns out I have no coordination & couldn't do it anyway.

Yeah, it's 220 Australian Dollars.

It's a weird balloon thing that's attached to a plastic base.
You Bluetooth it to your phone, install an app, sit on the device & when you move your muscles the correct way, it operates games included in the app.

There's a cool pinball game & others. I remember one where different shapes would fall from the top of the phone screen & you move your muscles to open a gate to allow the different-sized shapes through.
Kinda fun. I'm used to playing games on my arcade machine, so controlling games with my ass was certainly a novelty.

The other device that I considered was a wand-shaped metal thing that you shove up you & it zaps you. An anally-inserted taser for masochists.
It's a no from me.

I can't send anyone my device, per forum rules (I asked) - so it sits in the drawer, unused & unloved.
But it might be worth your while trying it.
I was just too uncoordinated/tight to benefit from it.

I have to say that the support was good, though.
Just to re-traumatize myself for everyone's benefit, here's my correspondence when I was having problems with it:

Hi

I bought the Boost because 5 physio sessions hasn't achieved much. I was hoping to show the Boost to my physio, to correct my technique - but she's moving overseas & I won't get another physio booking for a month.

The problem I'm having is that my understanding is that Kegels involve *lifting* the pelvic floor.
But when I try it with Boost, I get the opposite effect.

With the pinball game, for instance, the paddles don't move at all when I try to lift the pelvic floor, but I push down hard & bear down, the paddles move no problem.
Same with all the other workouts.

Obviously I'm doing the complete opposite way, but how I correct this?
I won't have professional help for another month & I was hoping the biofeedback from Boost would make a difference.

Hi Pete,

Thanks for reaching out. You are correct that a "squeezing and lifting" sensation is typically what you should feel with a correct pelvic floor muscle activation. One thing you can try is to increase the Sensitivity of Boost in the app (on the Settings screen) -- this may help detect a response more easily even when you are using the "lifting" technique and not the bearing down approach.

Another way to think about it is imagining what you would do if you were peeing and wanted to stop the flow of urine midstream without using your hands. That muscle activation is what you want to be shooting for while doing Kegel / pelvic floor muscle strengthening exercise. You may also want to imagine simultaneously preventing yourself from passing gas if that helps.

When you were working with your former physio, did she check your technique with you and did she have any comments about technique?

Looking forward to getting things working smoothly and hope you're having a good weekend,

Brian
kGoal Help Team

Just out of interest...

When I read about the Boost, I printed out information from the website for my physio & left it with her to assess - along with some other devices.

She emailed back the next day & said:

"I have had a look at some reviews of the kgoal unit and it appears to be convenient and user-friendly. I can't find any health professional reviews but I think it would be useful to keep you motivated and practicing the pelvic floor exercises.

I would suggest that sitting up tall on the machine will be paramount as previous research has shown that slumped sitting will reduce pelvic floor activation. The real-time feedback will hopefully reinforce that pattern of contract AND relax for you so we don't end up over-tensing the muscles.

If you can order and receive it in the next few weeks, flick me an email once you have it and I'll see if I can make an appointment time to try it with you in clinic."

So it might be good to get some professional reviews for the reviews page. It might help convince physios to recommend the device.
Just a thought.

Hi Pete,

Thanks for sharing this info!

We can also confirm / endorse your physio's recommendation about sitting up tall / having good posture in general -- that is definitely important for pelvic floor exercise in general and for Boost in particular.

Her comment about over-tensing and the importance of practicing muscle relaxation in addition to strengthening is (as you would expect) also spot-on. We have two "Down Training" workouts included in the app that are totally focused on muscle relaxation and one Combined Training workout, as well as the Strengthening workouts -- we'd definitely encourage you to check those out as well.

And lastly, adding some professional reviews to the reviews page is a great idea -- we will work on that.

Best regards,

Brian
kGoal Help Tea

I wouldn't buy into this "turns out I have no coordination and couldn't do it anyway" line. You didn't give up on learning to speak, or to read and write. Those things are by far more complicated than learning a bit about a group of muscles and how to control them.

@climateguy Well, when the first physio left, I was referred to another one. That referral was declined because I wasn't going to get any better at this & recommended an AUS.

Peter was seen today. He is three months post his radical prostatectomy. He is doing his
level best to try and find his pelvic floor. He is really unable to essentially isolate or perform
a pelvic floor contraction. It sounds like he also has difficulty with the posterior component
also of the pelvic floor. His PSA is undetectable with reference to his 4+3 prostate cancer. I
think given his current situation using so many pads that it is quite likely that he will end up
with an artificial urinary sphincter. We will therefore ask him to see Mr Mundy in three
months’ time for his next review to meet him initially and then put him on the waitlist for an
artificial urinary sphincter.

Kind regards
David Merrilees
Urologist
Department of Urology

(that was quite depressing to read again actually)