postop pathology to ChatGPT & asked about BCR. Anyone done this?.

Posted by esperling @esperling, 1 day ago

I used ChatGPT for the first time and input my post-op pathology details into it and then asked about recurrence. To my surprise, it stated that for men with “several high-aggressiveness factors” like mine,I.e.,
* Seminal vesicle invasion (pT3b)
* Multiple positive surgical margins
* Cribriform + Intraductal carcinoma
* Gleason 4+3
* Decipher score 0.89 (high-risk)
I should consider “ultra early” radiation therapy. It went on to state that a Sustained detectible PSA as low as 0.03-0.05 ng/mL should be used as a threshold to initiate conversations with your oncologists about radiation early salvage treatment and possibly, ADT. It specifically said,
“ PSA 0.03–0.05 ng/mL and rising (confirmed on two tests)”

And emphasized,
“Do NOT wait until PSA reaches 0.1. Patients with these features progress quickly once microscopic recurrence begins, and outcomes are best when salvage radiation is given at very low PSA levels.”

Referencing the AUA/ASTRO/SUO 2024 Guideline:
* Recommends early salvage radiation when PSA first becomes detectable.
* Strongly favors PSA ≤0.2, but many experts recommend ≤0.1 or even ≤0.05 for high-risk patients.
*
2. Multiple large studies
Consistently show:
* Best long-term cancer control happens when salvage RT is delivered with PSA ≤0.05
* Outcomes are significantly worse once PSA rises above 0.1
* Waiting until 0.2 (the “traditional” definition of recurrence) is now considered too late for high-risk patients.

It went on to explain that while the broad consensus guidance still defines biochemical recurrence at PSA >=0.2 ng/mL, the studies this was based on did not include a statistically relevant number of higher risk patients or account for their specific tendency for greater metastasis velocity.

It certainly puts new emphasis for me on watching my PSA very very closely and I will be discussing with my doctors on the coming weeks depending on the outcome of my next PSA (blood draw on Tuesday 12/16/25).

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Prostate Cancer Support Group.

Adjunct radiation does make sense for people that have very serious cases of prostate cancer. Here is a report on recommendations for early radiation from very highly respected doctor.

You are both PT3B and a high decipher, which is what are required in order to say that you should get this treatment. The article below really covers it. Definitely agrees with what AI told you.

Dr. Efstathiou concluded as follows:
* Early salvage radiotherapy is favored over adjuvant radiotherapy in most patients
* Consider adjuvant radiotherapy in otherwise fit, motivated, very high-risk patients with ≥2 of the following risk factors:
* pT3b-4
* Gleason score 8-10
* pN+ Lymph node Metz
* Decipher score >0.6
* In high-risk patients, use lower thresholds to initiate ‘ultra-early salvage or adjuvant-plus’ radiotherapy
* If giving adjuvant radiotherapy, it implies high-risk disease. Thus, Dr. Efstathiou would recommend treating the prostate bed and pelvic lymph nodes, in addition to short-term versus long-term ADT, depending on risk factors
* May consider genomic classifiers or artificial intelligence tools to help with informed decision-making
* The goal is to avoid (or delay) radiotherapy in those who we can, without missing a window to cure patients who are guaranteed to recur

Here is a link to the article supplied by @surftohealth88 originally
https://www.urotoday.com/conference-highlights/apccc-2024/151546-apccc-2024-debate-how-to-best-manage-a-fit-patient-with-high-risk-localised-and-locally-advanced-prostate-cancer-how-to-select-patients-for-adjuvant-therapy-after-radical-prostatectomy-and-how-to-treat-them.html

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Profile picture for jeff Marchi @jeffmarc

Adjunct radiation does make sense for people that have very serious cases of prostate cancer. Here is a report on recommendations for early radiation from very highly respected doctor.

You are both PT3B and a high decipher, which is what are required in order to say that you should get this treatment. The article below really covers it. Definitely agrees with what AI told you.

Dr. Efstathiou concluded as follows:
* Early salvage radiotherapy is favored over adjuvant radiotherapy in most patients
* Consider adjuvant radiotherapy in otherwise fit, motivated, very high-risk patients with ≥2 of the following risk factors:
* pT3b-4
* Gleason score 8-10
* pN+ Lymph node Metz
* Decipher score >0.6
* In high-risk patients, use lower thresholds to initiate ‘ultra-early salvage or adjuvant-plus’ radiotherapy
* If giving adjuvant radiotherapy, it implies high-risk disease. Thus, Dr. Efstathiou would recommend treating the prostate bed and pelvic lymph nodes, in addition to short-term versus long-term ADT, depending on risk factors
* May consider genomic classifiers or artificial intelligence tools to help with informed decision-making
* The goal is to avoid (or delay) radiotherapy in those who we can, without missing a window to cure patients who are guaranteed to recur

Here is a link to the article supplied by @surftohealth88 originally
https://www.urotoday.com/conference-highlights/apccc-2024/151546-apccc-2024-debate-how-to-best-manage-a-fit-patient-with-high-risk-localised-and-locally-advanced-prostate-cancer-how-to-select-patients-for-adjuvant-therapy-after-radical-prostatectomy-and-how-to-treat-them.html

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@jeffmarc thanks again for this reference. I’m convinced this is the route I will be going down. I just want to get a confirmed PSA reading and that happens this week.

REPLY

Totally agree with ALL recommendations. I think there is evidence - even without AI - that you should proceed to adjunct radiation treatment/ADT. Best,
Phil

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Profile picture for heavyphil @heavyphil

Totally agree with ALL recommendations. I think there is evidence - even without AI - that you should proceed to adjunct radiation treatment/ADT. Best,
Phil

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@heavyphil thanks Phil. I’m getting my blood pulled today for post op PSA#2. The results will be very telling on what’s next.

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