Maybe this will be moved; about opioid medication

Posted by stuckonu @stuckonu, May 29 8:44am

I know that there is a forum for this subject. Maybe the term opioid results results in this being moved. I’m just curious if one post existed in two forums if the messages would be the same?

I’d like to discuss at least two aspects of opioid medication one point being the amount rx’d. Then I’d like to discuss what opioid medication has become in the minds of the masses. On the later subject it appears to me that “ the masses “ has clearly divided into sub-categories. That said, it has occurred to me that each of these sub groups have knowledge about the medication that is a lot like news media that colors the story with the information that they 1 believe that it’s absolutely true so often they become closed minded to other facts. 2 not only do they deny themself the use of the drug for fear of addiction and other beliefs that they’ve heard about but 2B providers themself either don’t know the whole truth except that they can lose their license or perhaps be suited so they use new methods and drugs that are not as effective.
3 lawmakers who know less than everyone are under the gun to write some of the most bizarre draconian laws that are so different from state to state I wonder if they every discuss among themselves how to go about addressing the problem.

Years ago before opioid pills were a major problem, heroin addiction and dirty needles was what we heard on the news. Switzerland handed out brand new clean needle to the heroin population and the diseases resulting from dirty needle almost vanished. Interestingly enough the population of users stayed the same putting to rest the fear that clean needle would result in a new heroin epidemic.

When some gov officials here in the US suggested the Switzerland method the old argument came back here. I’m not sure but I think the onset of AIDS effected changes in a few states towns that implement the clean needle program.

I think that it would be interesting to read a study of how a legal drug replace heroin as the scourge of the country which unlike the heroin problem effected pain management in this country. Since opioid s became part of the medical establishments standard of care; how much addiction or abuse resulted from a standard practice? I don’t know the answer to that nor do I know the defining moment that things changed.

Back in the mid 70s when that needle and heroin problem was being discussed a local TV doctor in the San Francisco Bay Area provided the listening audience with this piece of information that was surprising to me” Heroin it self as a chemical as a drug is not inherently bad for the body, tobacco and alcohol are worse, the thing about heroin is what it’s cut with and dirty needles. We can control what it’s cut with but we can do something about dirty needles by handing out, no questions asked, clean new needles.

Back then heroin was cut with things that made it weaker. NoW theY cut it with fentanyl which is stronger but cheaper changing the problem.

As I mentioned, maybe this will be moved?

I do want to ask about the judgement call by doctors to determine how many pills one should get. I know it’s not an exact science but I also realize that I do not discuss my medications with others When I was in the Army our medications was a common topic of discussion. Now although I’m in groups with other veterans the topic never comes up but every once in a while numbers drift out and I’m always surprised..

At 24 years of age when I was discharged I had what was misdiagnosed but it lead to chronic pain. The VA doctors RX’d various different medications including Vicodin or Percocet if the pain got so bad that none of the other medications worked. But that process was always a two week supply with a possible refill. Most doctors treat narcotics that way. My back continued to get worse and 16 years after being discharged I moved to a country town in CT and found a country doc for other conditions then about a year after meeting him I was taken to his office on a door slipped into the back of a pickup truck. My back was showing him how bad it could get. He wrote me a month supply. I didn’t use them all so the next time it went out I was ready. I still had a few left over and it might have been 6 months later that it went out again and he found out how I had used them. With that he called in a script for a back brace , a muscle relaxer and an RX for 120 Percocet. No pharmacist batted an eye and for 20 years he wrote scripts as needed. One bottle lasted me a year.

At the VA in Florida where I would go to stay with my parents for the winter, the primary doctor told me that their facility did not write for Percocet they gave me Vicodin which made me itchy, so the switched to morphine tablets which also made me itchy. He then tried methadone which was amazing and I was RXd 60
2 a day. But I didn’t need 2 a day and just like CT I took pill if I needed them and I never got addicted or got in trouble until the VA in their ultimate wisdom crafted a
“ Narcotics Contact “ that was forced on new users. I went years without signing it until my house burned down and I lost everything. I stood in the rain on a cold day from 730 AM until 730 PM I could hardly get out of bed in the AM

My brother took me to the CT VA but the script came from Florida so CT called FL for permission and FL lied so I had to go back to my old CT doc for help.

But FL said that I had not signed a contract but that was not my doctor told the CT VA They said I had a history of telling tails to get more pills. I never did that.
The CT VA threw me out after my house burned down and I had burns besides trauma.

So does anyone know when the medical field lost their compassion and ability to SEE THE NEED FOR HELP?

I’m losing my vision and voice. Since being isolated things have gotten worse. I don’t know if this is related?

No one in this state has ever heard of sick house syndrome. I’ve gotten worse since the pandemic

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@stuckonu

I’m losing my vision and voice. Since being isolated things have gotten worse. I don’t know if this is related?

No one in this state has ever heard of sick house syndrome. I’ve gotten worse since the pandemic

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@stuckonu, I can see that isolation is certainly taking its toll on you. Have you consulted a physician about your loss of voice and vision? This sounds serious.

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@stuckonu In my opinion, doctors have lost their ability to treat and diagnose to the health insurance companies. Instead of using the education, training and experience of physicians, patients have to be approved for treatments by (essentially) proofreaders that work off a list of complicated steps prepared by the insurance companies. Reviews of denials do not review the documentation provided, but rather the steps taken by the initial reviewers to see if they followed protocol. Part of it is a national push to stop opioid abuse. Unfortunately, the insurance companies still want us to use medications rather than look for and receiving the "best choice" of care. The only suggestion I have for you is to learn your system as well as possible and advocate for yourself. Good luck.

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@2011panc

@stuckonu In my opinion, doctors have lost their ability to treat and diagnose to the health insurance companies. Instead of using the education, training and experience of physicians, patients have to be approved for treatments by (essentially) proofreaders that work off a list of complicated steps prepared by the insurance companies. Reviews of denials do not review the documentation provided, but rather the steps taken by the initial reviewers to see if they followed protocol. Part of it is a national push to stop opioid abuse. Unfortunately, the insurance companies still want us to use medications rather than look for and receiving the "best choice" of care. The only suggestion I have for you is to learn your system as well as possible and advocate for yourself. Good luck.

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VERY WELL SAID. SO TRUE

FUNCOUNTESS

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@colleenyoung

@stuckonu, I can see that isolation is certainly taking its toll on you. Have you consulted a physician about your loss of voice and vision? This sounds serious.

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Hi C0lleen,
Yes I have contacted several doctors some have been aware of the vision issue for year which means to me that” if we found nothing then it’s in your head” Now it’s accelerating so quickly that it suggests something more serious But in the midst of it all including c19 oddly everything appears differently
I’m scheduled for anMRI and MRA the day after tomorrow

It’s difficult to see what I’m typing thru my contraption that’s allows me to see something

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@2011panc

@stuckonu In my opinion, doctors have lost their ability to treat and diagnose to the health insurance companies. Instead of using the education, training and experience of physicians, patients have to be approved for treatments by (essentially) proofreaders that work off a list of complicated steps prepared by the insurance companies. Reviews of denials do not review the documentation provided, but rather the steps taken by the initial reviewers to see if they followed protocol. Part of it is a national push to stop opioid abuse. Unfortunately, the insurance companies still want us to use medications rather than look for and receiving the "best choice" of care. The only suggestion I have for you is to learn your system as well as possible and advocate for yourself. Good luck.

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TY 2011panc for your thoughts. A thought came to me several times while posting here in the Mayo forums: I wondered if comments criticizing doctors in general is frowned upon by participants as well as our volunteers and mentors and other unknown forum watchers? I’m not accusing or criticizing anyone for believing wholeheartedly in doctors and what they do. I guess that the thought came to mind as I recalled a number of times that doctors aggressively defended medicine and what it’s become. I’m okay with that as long as I can express what I experience and think.

Maybe an example of what I mean should be posted elsewhere but here seems better because it relative
Sometime back a doctor got Covid19. Most of his family is involved in medicine with all of his children working as doctors and nurses. He stated firmly that he did not want to go to the hospital and absolutely did not want to be placed on a ventilator. So they set up a hospital room in his home and everyone took care of him. They modified a CPAP device and he recovered faster and better than most hospitalized patients. Makes me wonder what he knows to set up his own treatment plan outside of a hospital setting?

I also thought that I heard the patients who go on ventilator mostly don’t recover. If that is true why is it still aggressively recommended?

Last year I was on a ventilator for 5 days or so. Shortly thereafter I got a fungus infection in my mouth and throat followed shortly after that by shingles on my tongue and throat. Eventually I lost my voice that was diagnosed as Muscle Dystrophy I as a non-doctor started looking at all of the things that followed. That pipe being shoved down my throat. It’s important to me to look at me the patient and to look at me as a whole unit with a series of illnesses that started happening after it was removed.
I’m still examine what happened.most doctors are not interested in my finding because I have no degree

Just something to think about

REPLY
@stuckonu

TY 2011panc for your thoughts. A thought came to me several times while posting here in the Mayo forums: I wondered if comments criticizing doctors in general is frowned upon by participants as well as our volunteers and mentors and other unknown forum watchers? I’m not accusing or criticizing anyone for believing wholeheartedly in doctors and what they do. I guess that the thought came to mind as I recalled a number of times that doctors aggressively defended medicine and what it’s become. I’m okay with that as long as I can express what I experience and think.

Maybe an example of what I mean should be posted elsewhere but here seems better because it relative
Sometime back a doctor got Covid19. Most of his family is involved in medicine with all of his children working as doctors and nurses. He stated firmly that he did not want to go to the hospital and absolutely did not want to be placed on a ventilator. So they set up a hospital room in his home and everyone took care of him. They modified a CPAP device and he recovered faster and better than most hospitalized patients. Makes me wonder what he knows to set up his own treatment plan outside of a hospital setting?

I also thought that I heard the patients who go on ventilator mostly don’t recover. If that is true why is it still aggressively recommended?

Last year I was on a ventilator for 5 days or so. Shortly thereafter I got a fungus infection in my mouth and throat followed shortly after that by shingles on my tongue and throat. Eventually I lost my voice that was diagnosed as Muscle Dystrophy I as a non-doctor started looking at all of the things that followed. That pipe being shoved down my throat. It’s important to me to look at me the patient and to look at me as a whole unit with a series of illnesses that started happening after it was removed.
I’m still examine what happened.most doctors are not interested in my finding because I have no degree

Just something to think about

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@tonycharen I spend a great deal of time researching my own and my family's medical issues. I also talk to friends and relatives working in the medical field. Mostly I just pay attention to my body. I believe that the Covid virus responds differently in every person based on their personal histories and experiences. The doctor you mentioned may have wanted to stay at home and use a protocol that he had determined for himself. If that protocol had not gone through channels and been approved, he would not have been allowed to use it in the hospital setting. (Big pharma, right?) What I have heard about the Covid virus is that it attacks the entire system, causing the most damage to the weakest point in the system. I do believe that it has been determined that ventilators are not necessarily appropriate for all patients, but those that need them, need them.
I also have been intubated multiple times and now believe that they have damaged my throat. However, the slight damage to my throat is much preferable to the more severe situation that required the intubation.
I am sorry you had so much trouble with your mouth and throat, it is entirely possible that the trauma of the ventilator started the series of events that led to your diagnosis. Blessings.

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@colleenyoung

@stuckonu, I can see that isolation is certainly taking its toll on you. Have you consulted a physician about your loss of voice and vision? This sounds serious.

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Thank you to anyone and everyone who replied. I can’t see nor read any reply’s

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