I'm back: increasing CA19-9 was accurate indicator of recurrence.

Posted by omus1omus23 @mmatunis, Feb 8, 2024

I had posted back in mid-November that my CA19-9 levels had been increasing and I was experiencing back pains at night, but there was no detectable circulating tumor DNA (ctDNA). To re-cap, I was diagnosed with borderline pancreatic cancer in July 2022 and had 12 rounds of FOLFIRINOX followed by a Whipple surgery at the end of January 2023. Due to the increasing CA19-9 and back pains, my oncologist ordered a PET scan at the end of December which revealed "areas of concern" in the surgical bed and in several mediastinal lymph nodes. My primary oncologist recommended either (1) restart chemotherapy or (2) wait and see. I got a second opinion from a second oncologist and decided at the time that I would wait in see. The ctDNA was still undetectable and evidence of recurrence was not definitive. It was also suggested that a more informed decision on treatment options could be made after recurrence was detected and we knew where the recurrence was located (local vs metastatic among other things). I was also wishfully thinking that maybe the increased CA19-9 and back pains and stomach aches I was experiencing could be due to pancreatitis, an ulcer or anything besides recurrence. That was wishful thinking. A CT scan on January 31 confirmed local recurrence at the site of surgery. I am now scheduled to restart chemotherapy next Tuesday. The decision for chemotherapy as opposed to radiation was based on concerns for possible metastasis to distal sites. I will be receiving Gemcitabine, Cisplatin and Durvalumab (an immune checkpoint inhibitor). This regimen has been shown to have some efficacy in treating biliary tract cancers, which is what my cancer was re-diagnosed as following pathological analysis of my resected tumor.

In retrospect, would I have done things differently? What I know now is that the increase in CA19-9, which started back in July (it first went from 7 to 28 to 72 to 120 and is now at 157 six months later), was in fact due to recurrence. I also now know that my back pains and stomach aches were probably due to the recurring cancer pressing on nerves, but also possibly due to stress and anxiety that I had been experiencing during the time of uncertainty. I did meet with a cancer therapist to address some of that, which was very helpful. I also now know the ctDNA test was not as sensitive as CA19-9, despite my and my care-giver's expectations. All together, I think I actually have taken the right course. I had six months with some discomfort, but mostly lived my life pretty fully. Restarting chemotherapy is going to be a drag, and there is no guarantee that it is going to be effective or make me feel any better. I will probably feel worse. Are outcomes going to be any different had I started treatments six months ago? We will never know. I can only hope for the best! Thanks for listening. Maybe what I describe will be of some use to others who may be going through the same thing.

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Pancreatic Cancer Support Group.

@gamaryanne

PET scans certainly can find activity. But an MRI with and without contrast seems to be the tool to look at liver, which is where this thing tends to metastasize first. I understand the desire to get you in chemo to hopefully slow or stamp out whatever is trying to grow.

Jump to this post

Thanks for your reply. The onco's all seem to want you to go with chemo and stay on it. My surgeon who is at MSK in NYC says if you don't have a tumor no need to get chemo. If you find a tumor we will go to radiotherapy and then go from there. I have been off chemo for 5-6 month and now feel better prepared if I need radiation/ chemo. For me chemo is so hard on the body I'm not sure I could take a steady diet. Thanks again. By the way have you had any indication of the value of the Signatera blood test and the CA19-9 ?

REPLY
@mrgolfer326

Thanks for your reply. The onco's all seem to want you to go with chemo and stay on it. My surgeon who is at MSK in NYC says if you don't have a tumor no need to get chemo. If you find a tumor we will go to radiotherapy and then go from there. I have been off chemo for 5-6 month and now feel better prepared if I need radiation/ chemo. For me chemo is so hard on the body I'm not sure I could take a steady diet. Thanks again. By the way have you had any indication of the value of the Signatera blood test and the CA19-9 ?

Jump to this post

CA19-9 can be a very good indicator of cancer activity, but it doesn’t work the same for all mutations. Most with BRCA gene, CA19-9 is not a good indicator. I had KRAS12D and TP53 and ATM mutation (unknown significance base substitution) and it’s an excellent indicator and allows drs to know when small tumors or lesions, in my case, are coming back so we find things early and can treat them when small. At the end of March my CA19-9 was 224 when just 2 weeks before it had been 12 and it was that number since October 2024 following my MRIdean treatment. Now we are in the 300’s; it grows very quickly for me. Find out what your mutations are. For me, Signaterra lags behind any CA19-9 results. Hope this helps.

REPLY
@mnewland99

CA19-9 can be a very good indicator of cancer activity, but it doesn’t work the same for all mutations. Most with BRCA gene, CA19-9 is not a good indicator. I had KRAS12D and TP53 and ATM mutation (unknown significance base substitution) and it’s an excellent indicator and allows drs to know when small tumors or lesions, in my case, are coming back so we find things early and can treat them when small. At the end of March my CA19-9 was 224 when just 2 weeks before it had been 12 and it was that number since October 2024 following my MRIdean treatment. Now we are in the 300’s; it grows very quickly for me. Find out what your mutations are. For me, Signaterra lags behind any CA19-9 results. Hope this helps.

Jump to this post

Thank you very helpful. Just what I was looking for. If I may ask : are you on chemo and if so continuous or have you stopped and started? My surgeon at MSK in NYC tells me if the Pet scan does not show a tumor don't bother with chemo. Any comment.

REPLY
@carneydh

I had whipple surgery in January 2024 with clear margins. My surgeon had me do 3 more months of chemo after my surgery . I have had clear scans every three months since, but every time I get off the chemo my CA 19 numbers start to rise. Very frustrating!

Jump to this post

Sounds like my story. I find it very frustration as well. What type and how many a times a month do you get chemo. My surgeon at MSK in NYC said no tumor no chemo. Follow up every 3 months with a Pet Scan but I worry about the CA19-9 going up. Thanks for the info.

REPLY

I have been doing Gemcitabine and Abraxane since the beginning. I am only doing twice a month now, what my oncologist calls day 1 and day 15. My local oncologist lives by the CA 19-9. Since my scans have been clear, my oncologist at UCSF, where I had my surgery suggested forget the CA19-9 and just go with the scans, same as your surgeon. My problem is that I don’t want it to come back, so I tend to back and forth with the chemo, as my CA 19-9 numbers rise. When I was first diagnosed my CA19-9 was 9700. After three months of chemo it dropped to 150 and then had the whipple surgery.

REPLY
@mnewland99

I’m sorry to hear about your husband’s PET scan activity. I’m in the same position; new, small activity. I’ve just been on gemzar the last 5 months and apparently by itself, it’s not effective enough to stop cancer. Naliri should be my next move, but it can exacerbate existing conditions of interstitial lung disease (ILD) of which I do have and use an inhaler 2x per day. I might need to add abraxane to the gemzar again with its wonderful gifts of neuropathy and hair loss. I almost lost my ability to walk and drive due to abraxane so I’m not excited about it. I also plan to get MRI radiation again on my new liver lesion, but my oncologist says I need a systemic treatment (chemo), as well. If you say your husband’s chemo is wearing down, which new chemo will he try? Hoping the best for both from across the continent!

Jump to this post

@mnewland99 The thing is the Gem-Abraxane is controlling the spread elsewhere. These 2 spots - one on the surgical bed and one at the resected end of the pancreas - were always there but not 'lit up' in PET scans; they were just shadows. So the Gem-Abraxane appears not to be controlling these 2 spots. Onco says once these 2 spots have been dealt with, its back to Gem-Abraxane. Hard to figure out what is happening and what to think. Seeing surgeon tomorrow to see what he thinks - he was concerned about these 2 spots 3 months ago when scan and MRI were all clear but CA19-9 was rising. One hopes he can go in there and scrape them off!

REPLY
@mrgolfer326

Thanks for your reply. It helped. My surgeon who is at MSK in NYC told me unless you have a tumor no need to get chemo . If we find a tumor then go with radiotherapy then we will discus chemo which is so hard on the body. What is your experience with Signatera blood test and CA-19-9 as an indicator of where your cancer is going. My onco tells me the same thing about chemo however the 5-6 month break was good for me and my wife. I think the surgeon gave me the best advice and if I need chemo I'm stronger and better prepared. Thanks again.

Jump to this post

We have to trust our surgeons and oncologists. This forum is good to hear what others say. But as many here recommend, be your own advocate. If you are concerned, do something about it. If your markers can go down and is now on an upward trend, insist on some tests. Some people have markers that are in the hundreds without cancer - those people may not need to worry. My husband's markers were within normal at one point and then climbed without the scans picking up anything. Recent developments show that his markers was telling us something. Our surgeon was concerned 2 months ago but our onco was not - we did nothing then but now we have to deal with the rising markers.

REPLY
@mrgolfer326

Thanks for your reply. It helped. My surgeon who is at MSK in NYC told me unless you have a tumor no need to get chemo . If we find a tumor then go with radiotherapy then we will discus chemo which is so hard on the body. What is your experience with Signatera blood test and CA-19-9 as an indicator of where your cancer is going. My onco tells me the same thing about chemo however the 5-6 month break was good for me and my wife. I think the surgeon gave me the best advice and if I need chemo I'm stronger and better prepared. Thanks again.

Jump to this post

@mrgolfer326 Forgot to say my husband never had a Signatera blood test - onco's opinion was if CA19-9 is high, no point doing the Signatera.

REPLY
@mrgolfer326

Thank you very helpful. Just what I was looking for. If I may ask : are you on chemo and if so continuous or have you stopped and started? My surgeon at MSK in NYC tells me if the Pet scan does not show a tumor don't bother with chemo. Any comment.

Jump to this post

Didn’t get my last session of chemo due to the fact my dr had me scheduled to start Naliri which I read online can cause exacerbation of interstitial lung disease (ILD). Somehow I developed ILD back in 2019 or before; it leaves a scarring on your lungs and basically makes it more difficult to breathe, but I already suffer from asthma anyways so I had to leave my chemo session because I just didn’t feel right getting Naliri without getting a 2nd opinion first. I asked if I could just get gemzar that day but was denied because my dr says it doesnt work anymore (it does keep my cancer from going crazy high rapidly, but that doc refused to acknowledge that) I’ve only had that oncologist since January of this year and they are at the city of Hope; a facility with a decent reputation. I’m glad I changed oncologists as my new old oncologist who I originally started out with was aware that Naliri may cause ILD to get worse. I may have to go back on gem abraxane which I truly hate the idea of. I do start SBRT radiation on my small liver lesion this week. If you’re brain is sending you a red flag about a drs opinion (no matter if they are associated with a facility with a stellar reputation) you need to get a 2nd opinion, in my opinion, to relieve any regrets you might have later on. It’s a patient’s prerogative to get a 2nd opinion.

REPLY
@carneydh

I have been doing Gemcitabine and Abraxane since the beginning. I am only doing twice a month now, what my oncologist calls day 1 and day 15. My local oncologist lives by the CA 19-9. Since my scans have been clear, my oncologist at UCSF, where I had my surgery suggested forget the CA19-9 and just go with the scans, same as your surgeon. My problem is that I don’t want it to come back, so I tend to back and forth with the chemo, as my CA 19-9 numbers rise. When I was first diagnosed my CA19-9 was 9700. After three months of chemo it dropped to 150 and then had the whipple surgery.

Jump to this post

Thanks for your reply. Very helpful to me. Just so I understand you had the whipple surgery like me and now do chemo twice a month? How is that working out? How hard is the chemo on your body? After about eight session I'm down for the count. I've been off chemo for 5-6 months and feel great /good for me and my wife but like you my CA19-9 is raising. I have some test early this month and if need be will go back on chemo. Like you thinking of only doing twice a month.

REPLY
Please sign in or register to post a reply.