Diet - Eggs or no eggs?
I am just beginning ADT ( Gleason 7 4+3 T2a ) and see the oncologist tomorrow here in France to set out the RT plan. No dietary advice so far from eg urologist and guessing that tomorrow will only be a practical regime for the duration of the RT. Respected sources constantly recommend a plant-based diet ( already on this ) with little or no dairy products. However, the court seems to be out in the matter of eggs. This concerns me, since B12 is clearly important on all fronts and calcium is clearly an issue with risk of bone thinning whilst on ADT.
Has anyone here received advice for or against please?
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As you say, a lot there. Thanks for this. As a vegetarian, eggs are one of my main B12 sources and this is a concern. Certainly I blame over consumption of cheese on my PC and also large gallstones ( probably 20+ years in the making ). Thanks again.
David
Odd, pretty sure my gas free diet consisted of NO eggs because of the sulfur compounds…But I also get instant gas from apples and my nutritionist said they were OK - even raw. I avoided them and many other things that were given the OK, just to be sure.
I won’t get into the cheese thing but years ago they linked milk to breast cancer; but it wasn’t the milk - it was the pesticides used on the feed grasses and the de-lousing pesticides used on the cows - double whammy!
It’s probably the same thing for prostate cancer and “certified organic” doesn’t mean what it used to. Thanks to Monsanto, Bayer, et al, the strict laws have been lobbied so heavily that now over 250 different chemicals (some more harmful than others) can be used in/on foods and they can still be “certified organic”.
This is why I reject all these studies that show correlation: they are NOT finding the real causative agent but the food vehicle it’s hiding in.
Good luck on your RT!
A large study by NIH concerning choline and cases of lethal prostate cancer DID find a correlation of highest blood concentrations of choline and death caused by prostate cancer…
However - and this is critical - researchers could not contribute large amounts of choline in cancer cells to dietary consumption; their conclusion was that metabolism of choline is “clearly” altered in men with prostate cancer. In other words, its not the absolute amount of choline you ingest, its the fact that ANY amount you eat is liable to be handled differently in those men with prostate cancer who will go on to DIE from it. My take is that the lethal form of PCa - as opposed to the garden variety most of us have - is what is causing the high levels of choline - not the other way around.
There was a huge controversy a while back about flaxseed, flaxseed oil and PCa….did it prevent it or cause it?? Because they found larger than normal amounts of ALA ( alpha alanine) in PCa cells, and flaxseed contains huge amounts of the same compound, researchers theorized that the ALA was causing the prostate cancer. However, after running a double blind experiment on men scheduled to undergo prostatectomy, they found that flaxseed LOWERED 6 different cancer markers in the men who had eaten the flaxseed and not in the placebo group.
So proof positive that it was NOT the flaxseed (and its ALA) causing the cancer. But after doing more testing involving biochemical tracers they found that many men with PCa do not metabolize ALA properly and this is why it winds up in such high concentrations in the cells. Once again, CORRELATION IS NOT CAUSATION!
I actually emailed the head researcher in Minnesota ( whose name escapes me now) and she told me to keep eating flaxseed since it did not fuel PCa.
I can get her name if you would like to read their study.
Apologies, jeffmark, I meant alpha-lipoic acid ALA…not alpha alanine.
Choline was definitely what they said was the problem in the eggs. If you just ate the whites you didn’t get it, so you were OK with doing that.
Are you correlating flaxseed to the egg problem? I don’t think so, since flaxseed has real benefits it seems. Or are you posturing that the problem with eggs is really not what they think? I am not so sure we have all the garden variety, Without the newer drugs, some of us would be dead. My father didn’t last more than a couple years after Lupron stopped working, I’m way beyond that point
@heavyphil provides a lot of good info. On an even simpler level, it's possible that men who crave eggs and men with a high risk of prostate cancer have some unknown factor X in common. Chasing correlations is like playing darts blindfolded.
I don't intend this to be mean or demeaning but it's a demonstration of correlation vs causation. (maybe not the best one)
Myself and 6 friends wear wool socks everyday and our PSA is undetectable. If we all wear wool socks, our psa will stay undectable.
I ate junk and a lot of sugar everyday and have diabetes. That had a specific effect on my metabolism.
The egg thing is a pet peeve of mine. About every 3-5 years a study deems them either super food or poison. Most of the studies on these things literally demonstrate correlation not causation and generally from fairly small samplings. First thing I look at? Who paid for said study.
“Moderation in all things—including moderation.” - Oscar Wilde
Yes, Jeff, I am saying that it is not the ingestion of choline that is the problem - it is the lethal form of PCa which does not allow the men to process it properly, so it winds up having high concentrations in the blood and cells.
Choline is found in many, many foods - the highest concentrations being in meat, dairy and eggs…ergo don’t eat those things and you won’t die from PCa. But choline is essential to life - it is the precursor of acetylcholine, without which you simply could not exist, as it is responsible for all neuronal synaptic transmission: all movement, breathing, talking, blinking, etc. The study didn’t separate men who ate yolks from men who ate egg whites, follow them for 30 yrs and look to see which group died from PCa; it said that egg whites don’t raise choline levels….so what? We agree that it’s in the yolks.
As for flaxseed, we all know of its health benefits (like eggs?😉), but they were finding very high levels of alpha lipoic acid (ALA) in their blood and in PCa cells….sound familiar?
So they did the dietary questionnaire thing and zeroed in on flaxseed because it has the highest levels of ALA of all foods…ergo, flaxseeds cause prostate cancer.
But Dr Waanefried (sp?) and her team in Minnesota, came up with a plan: biopsy men scheduled to undergo prostatectomy in one month; feed half of them a lot of flaxseed, the other half a placebo for 30 days. They measured 5 or 6 biomarkers for PCa activity in the pre- surgical biopsies and compared them to the post- surgical biopsy levels of the same biomarkers.
The men who ate the flaxseed had something like 50% less activity for PCa, using these biomarkers as a gauge. So the flaxseed DEcreased the potency of the cancer; the ALA therefore did not CAUSE PCa but was CORRELATED to finding it.
Further study showed that many of the men who expressed the highest levels of ALA in both blood and cells did not, or could not metabolize ALA properly - either because of their own genetic predisposition OR their prostate cancer did not allow them to.
You have stated that you are BRCA positive, which is a huge factor in the aggressiveness of your particular cancer. Could it not be possible that this inherited genetic condition alters many chemical pathways in your body and allows certain compounds to build up because they are not metabolized properly? Who knows what they are unless you set out to test for them? But we don’t know what we don’t know so where do you begin? You say you are way past castrate resistance, yet here you are because of drug therapies that are keeping you alive. Are these drugs targeting choline? ALA? Are you not dead because you stopped eating eggs a year or two ago? Do you think that if you had avoided eggs, dairy and meat all your life, your BRCA gene would have been turned off and you would not have gotten PCa at all?
A disease like Hemochromatosis causes high levels of iron to accumulate in the liver, often leading to cirrhosis…..IRON CAUSES CIRRHOSIS!! See what I mean? Unfortunately this disease only strikes those of Hibernian (Irish/Celtic) ancestry - similar to Tay-Sachs disease only striking Ashkenazi Jews.
The upshot is that many Irish patients in the past presenting with cirrhosis were simply dismissed as alcoholics, since that is the most common reason for the disease. Sad but true…
Anyway, biochemistry is sooo complicated that it often takes decades to find a smoking gun. Don’t think that gun- or the silver bullet- is right around the corner, but we’re finding out more about this disease every day. These nutritional studies are invaluable and where they might leave us still looking for answers, they can, at least, perhaps point us in another direction. Best
Phil
Appreciate all the points you have made. Interesting results with flaxseed.
As for BRCA, it prevents your cells from correcting DNA errors. Doesn’t seem to do much of anything else, besides causing about five or six different types of cancer. There don’t seem to be any issues with foods and BRCA, other than those that affect just about every other prostate cancer patient. You never know what could be possible however.
@jeffmarc. My take on all this egg stuff etc . is BS . People starting up a cottage industry out of fear . No definitive opinions on any of it We still read that "Tomatoes , especially grilled or fried -- Helps to prevent cancer " . I am approaching 85 - nobody for years - and - years eat bushels of tomatoes like I did , and still do . The result " CANCER " .
My advice , as with all good advice . Eat and drink what you want " IN MODERATION " . I still enjoy my Single Malt Whiskey " and Beer , in moderation . My dad who was a diabetic always said . At my age , in his early eighties . Do you want me to cut out the food I enjoyed all my life just to live another 6 months or so -- Forget it . I'm still enjoying life .