Delaying TKR

Posted by dna41 @dna41, Aug 11 12:52pm

I have two bad knees and am scheduled for TKR on one of them in September. I have read so many posts about how difficult this surgery is and how painful. I am terrified of doing it. I previously had shots in my knee but stopped because the actual shot itself (to me) was excruciating painful. I can't do that again without more or different anesthetic to my knee. Does anyone know if there is an alternate pain eliminating way to have a gel shot? I'm thinking if there is, maybe I can just continue having the shots rather than the surgery. Any thoughts or suggestions on this?

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Profile picture for dna41 @dna41

Thank you for the good advice. I am so grateful for the quality responses I am receiving. I was told my knees are bone on bone so replacement is most likely necessary but I don't have extreme pain at this point and I'm thinking I should take more time to research. Again, thanks!

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Thanks for your kind words dna41.

Now that I'm on the other side of my TKRs, it's easy for me to suggest when someone should get one done. That's my bad. The decision to have any surgery is up to the individual. I'm sorry if I suggested otherwise.

The first time I met my knee surgeon, I was bone on bone but not in daily pain. He was actually very reluctant to do surgery. His reasoning - people will be more motivated in their rehab if the worst pain they experience is pre-op. I decided to wait.

II hired a trainer at that point to get the muscles supporting my knee in good shape, while honoring the limitations I had. I was in a ton of pain before surgery, and I cherish all the days since surgery because I feel so much better.

So I agree - take some time to research surgeons, short-term alternatives like gel shots, and the TKR procedure itself. You don't have to be a Dr, but I think it's important to know what the surgeon will do. And for the knees, does the surgeon use a robotic assistant, and if so, which one? (My surgeon used Stryker/Mako).

I wish you all the best dna41. You're a very thoughtful person.

Joe

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Profile picture for nme1985 @nme1985

Wow Joe I just read your comment and it is exactly an answer to my thoughts this morning. I have had bone on bone both knees for 12 years and lived with Cortizone gel etc. it is now time I am scheduled for my first total knee replacement on November 24 now it’s interfering with my life before this I could get around with no problem. I’m a tour guided a museum. I could still wear heels, etc. now I know I have to get it done. I’m 68 years old soon to be 69. I am petrified of infection healing, etc. I have never had surgery except for my children where I had two C-sections many years ago I’m a daughter of a doctor which we are the worst patients. It never leaves you even after all these years thank you for your words. It just reinforced the fact that I have to go through with this. Thank you so much. I am anxious and at this point I just can’t wait till November because it’s just getting to me.

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Hi nme1985 and thanks so much for your kindness!

I modified my position a bit thanks to a response from dna41. Once a person is bone on bone - a TKR is inevitable, versus going out and getting it done immediately. Ultimately it's the decision of the individual.

Even my surgeon suggested I work with a trainer to strengthen the muscles supporting my knee - to the extent I could with no or minimal pain. That was good advice but eventually the pain was keeping me up at night. I was 67 in 2022 when I had my knees replaced.

I'm almost certain that if you follow rehab guidance to the nth degree, you'll be very happy. Please keep in mind, as Capt noted, this is a major surgery. The first two weeks after the surgery will be hard. But each day you'll feel a little better, and I believe you'll always feel better than you did pre-op.

It sounds like you've lived long enough with your knees b on b. I'm certain you'll find life much more enjoyable after the surgery.

Best wishes to you for your surgery and a speedy and ultimately pain-free recovery!

Joe

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Profile picture for billmason @billmason

Thank You Joe,
I appreciate your thoughtful response. Perhaps the word always should not have been used. I’ve had surgeries that improved my life and two that made other conditions worse.
Nothing in medicine is for sure. We Try to do our best. So do almost all doctors.
Be well and happy.
Bill

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Thanks Bill. Yeah I try to avoid absolutes, but one bad experience, especially with surgery, is bound to change how one views surgery and surgeons.

I still remember living in a Chicago suburb around 2008. I had just arrived and didn't know any Drs. The sciatica I had was extremely painful, like stabbing pain in my calf and hamstrings. When I found an ortho surgeon, he immediately recommended fusing three vertebrae - S1/L5/L4, and he was available within the next week to do the surgery, which he strongly recommended.

Even in a huge mount of pain, this just screamed "Be Careful!" I looked for other Drs, and this case of sciatica resolved on its own, which many do.

We owe it to ourselves to be informed and careful in evaluating a surgeon and their recommendations. And we should also do some research on our own conditions and the proposed alternatives.

Thanks for your kind reply Bill - and all the best to you.

Joe

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Hi, I was the same as you, terrified of the knee replacement, couldn't sleep, anxious. And I won't lie it is painful. But, Im glad I've had it done now. Like you I had the injections, but over long term they weren't working. The longer you wait for surgery the worse your knee gets. That was for me anyway. Its been 3 weeks now. I can get about on one crutch, do loads of stuff indoors and the pain has gone, just some cramps. If you do the exercises before and after it helps. All the best.

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Profile picture for Lawanna Bean @lawanna85

I can relate to bone on bone with no pain. I had the same thing happen. The last time my knee Dr. took xrays he said "Well, that looks terrible." That gave me pause. But even at that point he didn't tell me I needed surgery. Bone on bone does not get better, it only gets worse as we age. So at least consider getting knee surgery and don't wait until you are 85 like I did. My surgery went extremely well, but I am not sure most 85 year olds would come through it as well.

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Well said Lawanna.

Yeah people can be b on b for years without a lot of pain. It's hard to have surgery when the pain is non-existent, or manageable. That said, I still believe replacement is the best lt option.

But even in retirement, joint-replacement surgery is a burden - on the patient and whoever is helping the patient. I had my left shoulder replaced on Aug 6th and can't imagine how the time since would have passed without my wife's help.

Stay strong Lawanna!

Joe

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I had my left knee done 4 years ago. My surgeon was recommended by a number of people. He has done many of these procedures and is well respected and has a very, very low infection rate. The surgery went well and I followed aftercare, home exercises and pt religiously. I never needed a walker or crutches. Pain was minimal but I took the recommended pain meds to stay ahead of the pain. I had the support of my husband but it was stressful for him. Good luck with your tkr.

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Profile picture for pinkie70 @pinkie70

Hi, I was the same as you, terrified of the knee replacement, couldn't sleep, anxious. And I won't lie it is painful. But, Im glad I've had it done now. Like you I had the injections, but over long term they weren't working. The longer you wait for surgery the worse your knee gets. That was for me anyway. Its been 3 weeks now. I can get about on one crutch, do loads of stuff indoors and the pain has gone, just some cramps. If you do the exercises before and after it helps. All the best.

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Thanks Pinkie. Sounds like you're doing great at 3 weeks. To paraphrase you a bit - what you get from a joint replacement is equal to the work you put into your recovery.

All I would add is that the window to work on rehab is small, and starts as soon as the surgery ends and the anesthesia wears off. I was taken on a walk in the recovery area by a PT, and did all the recommended exercises 3x/day. I also saw a PT twice a week, and these were valuable sessions.

The timing of the surgery is personal. Once a person is bone on bone, only a replacement will fix the problem and remove the pain. Good surgeons are booking out approximately 3 to 6 months, and it can take 3 months to get a first appointment.

I advise anyone considering this to find a good surgeon and ask a lot of questions.

Thanks again Pinkie!

Joe

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Profile picture for heyjoe415 @heyjoe415

Hi nme1985 and thanks so much for your kindness!

I modified my position a bit thanks to a response from dna41. Once a person is bone on bone - a TKR is inevitable, versus going out and getting it done immediately. Ultimately it's the decision of the individual.

Even my surgeon suggested I work with a trainer to strengthen the muscles supporting my knee - to the extent I could with no or minimal pain. That was good advice but eventually the pain was keeping me up at night. I was 67 in 2022 when I had my knees replaced.

I'm almost certain that if you follow rehab guidance to the nth degree, you'll be very happy. Please keep in mind, as Capt noted, this is a major surgery. The first two weeks after the surgery will be hard. But each day you'll feel a little better, and I believe you'll always feel better than you did pre-op.

It sounds like you've lived long enough with your knees b on b. I'm certain you'll find life much more enjoyable after the surgery.

Best wishes to you for your surgery and a speedy and ultimately pain-free recovery!

Joe

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Hi Joe,

Thank you so much for your encouragement. It means the world to me. The whole thing is scary, but I have no choice like you know take care.

Best,
Nina

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Profile picture for genie15 @genie15

I can relate to your comment about being very sensitive to pain. I had a horrible year after a knee replacement last year, but I learned some lessons: 1) If your surgeon does not offer you a detailed patient education class, video, or pamphlet, or refuses to discuss complications of the surgery and side effects of medication before you agree to the surgery, get a new surgeon. 2) Don't expect contact or help from a surgeon afterwards. They aren't interested. It's almost impossible to get any prompt help if you are in trouble and the minimum appointments they do schedule are too far apart. So, go ahead and schedule checkups with your family doctor at about three week intervals over the first four or five months. You can cancel if you don't need them all, but they are your failsafe. It's the fastest help you can get. It really helped me. 3) Do a search for physical therapists in your area who are board certified for knee replacement recovery or who have a Ph.D. There are lots of different opinions about how to rehab a knee after TKR. The physical therapist is not a doctor and it's really just you and the therapist who will get you well. Get the very best one in town. I know from experience that what some of them don't know will hurt you badly and delay recovery. 4) Get someone reliable, patient, and caring to be your coach. There's no getting through this surgery without one. They not only drive for months, but they have to monitor large numbers of meds on a 24 hour basis and remember all the instructions you get and help you practice the therapy. You won't be able to think or remember for weeks from all the drugs. You won't be driving for at least a couple of months. You won't be cooking or washing clothes or shopping. The coach is absolutely the most important person in your life after surgery. 5) Buy a large ice pack from your physical therapist (roughly 8 x 12 inches). It's going to be your constant companion. Also, arrange a comfortable way to elevate your leg above the level of your heart for 30 minutes 4 times a day. It's the only way to get the swelling under control so that your leg will bend. 6) Get on the Internet and read everything you can find about the surgery, the risks, the complications, the rehab, how the leg heals, and recovery physical therapy exercises. Use sites from big teaching hospitals like Cleveland Clinic, Mayo Clinic, Johns Hopkins, the National Institutes of Health publications, and professional associations for orthopedics. More info will help you deal with the roller coaster of unexpected events. It is easy to become overwhelmed and deeply depressed after this big surgery. It's a long haul. 7) Finally, prepare your family for a year of disruption. Someone else will have to take over things you normally do. It's very stressful for the whole household. Your days will be spent dealing with the miserable knee for months to come and nothing in your life will be normal till the following year. Don't believe all the advertising about how you will be walking and climbing stairs and getting back to your daily life in a matter of weeks. That's sales talk. Best of luck to you. Everyone who has been through this will be rooting for you to heal quickly.

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Just bookmarked your insights! I waffled for a couple of years between doing whatever it took to put the TKR off as long as possible, and getting it done while I was still in reasonable shape and the pain was tolerable. Finally decided on delaying it. Only time will tell if it proves to be the right choice...

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Profile picture for pinkie70 @pinkie70

Hi, I was the same as you, terrified of the knee replacement, couldn't sleep, anxious. And I won't lie it is painful. But, Im glad I've had it done now. Like you I had the injections, but over long term they weren't working. The longer you wait for surgery the worse your knee gets. That was for me anyway. Its been 3 weeks now. I can get about on one crutch, do loads of stuff indoors and the pain has gone, just some cramps. If you do the exercises before and after it helps. All the best.

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Thank you, Pinkie. Yes, I am terrified and I also worry about the support I will have afterward. I live alone. I have a son who has a very stressful, travel-heavy job. I really can't rely on him being able to help much. I appreciate your encouragement.

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