Can vegan diet and HIIT workouts move the needle?

Posted by sulatnasteve @sulatnasteve, 2 days ago

Hello! I am so pleased that I found this group. What an incredible wealth of information it contains. Here's my story and I would appreciate any feedback on whether my plan of action sounds like a good one. My name is Steve, i'm 69 years old, and weigh 180 pounds and an 6'. In February I had a yearly check-up and my doc saw that my PSA was 3.9. He drew some blood and did a K4test, They came back with a PSA of 4.8 and a 8.3 which put me at 9.6%chance of aggessive prostate cancer. He suggested that I see a urologist and see what he thought. The urologist said to come back in September and get another PSA test. I asked if we could get an MRI and he thought that would be unnecessary. After the appointment, my doctor asked me how it went and he said that if the urologist won't order the MRI, than he would. The MRI came back with a gland size of 5.5 x 5 x 4.5 A PSA density of .136
There is a far left apex lesion measuring 0.8 x 0.8 DWI score 4 CCE negative T2 score 3 PI-RADS 4
impression:
The pI-RADS 4 sub centimeter lesion is in the far left apex peripheral zone. No visualized seminal involvement or definite extra-capsular disease.
I went back to the urologist and he thought it probably wasn't cancer but he would do a biopsy. Here is the important part of the results.
Part 6- Prostate left medial apex, core needle biopsy: Prostatic adenocarcinoma, Gleason 3+4=7 (grade group2) involving 40% 0f 1 of 3 cores. All other cores were ok.
We then did a Decipher test and it came back .46 which is .01 away from the high point of low risk. (.45)
I meet the urologist again and he told me just go home and live your life. You can do Active Surveillance and in September we will recheck PSA and in March he would do a follow up biopsy and another MRI. I asked about diet and exercise which I had been reading could help the situation but he did not think I could do anything that would change the outcome. I spent hours and hours reading everything I could and decided that i would up my exercise to HIIT workouts as well as really step up an already very active life and I would also transition to a vegan diet since everything I found showed that plant based diets could have an impact on PC. I began the diet on May 18th and i'm doing great on it, obviously missing meat, cheese and dairy but if it changes the picture I will be pleased. I lost 15 pounds and leveled out at 180.
I have 2 questions for this group - First, do you agree that active surveillance is the way to go with this small lesion and second do you think the diet and exercise program can have an effect on lowering PSA and possibly shrinking the tumor? I sure appreciate your time and insight!

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Prostate Cancer Support Group.

I Had 4+3 Gleason, unfavorable Intermediate, Grade group 3 and I chose Active Surveillance and after 2.5 years and diet & exercise, cut out all sugar, I am happy to report, my PSA went from a high of 7.21 spring 2024 to 3.59 last summer and now stabilized in the 4.40 range. I will be 73 in October and I am happy with my choice. You are fortunate to have only a 3+4 favorable, and with decipher of .46 I would think you would be an excellent candidate for AS. Of course each person has to make their own choice, but for me quality of life was number one, the medical industrial complex is geared to treat, radiation, surgery or focal therapy, thats the choice they give you.
I posted this below on this forum 3/12/24 almost 2 1/2 years ago

I am 70 years old ( as of October 23) my PSA had gone from 4.24 to 6.62 in 6 months so my urologist ordered a Parametric MRI and a 4K score blood test, MRI showed a 12mm lesion on the right side mid gland and came back Pirads 4, the 4K score was the maximum at 95% of clinically significant cancer. Sure enough the MRI Fusion perineal biopsy at Mayo Phoenix show 9 of 23 cores cancer, with 6 at 70% 4+3=7 and 3 cores 40% 3+4= 7 and 14 cores benign. I had the PSMA PET which confirmed the tumor on the right, but no other spread outside the prostate. I then had the Decipher test and it came back low risk at 0.38. I looked into surgery and met the Mayo surgeon, who said at my age and weight ( 250 lbs) I was not a good candidate for surgery and he reiterated that it was major surgery with serious life changing side effects and possible major complications. After learning all the details of the surgery, there is no way I would even consider it. My prostate was 50.4 cc about the size of a lemon, they cut the whole thing out and to make up the missing 2+ inches of the urethra they pull the bladder neck down and the urethra up shortening your penis 1-1.5 inches, the cancer returns in about 20 - 30% of surgeries and you need further treatment like radiation or God forbid ADT and hormones. Radiation also has serious side effects and Erectile Dysfunction in 20-40% of cases, plus possible bowel problems. I then looked into Focal Therapy, talked with my Mayo Urologist yesterday, was really depressed that even the focal therapies like Hifu have side effects, ED in 20% of cases, possible rectal fistula, urine leaking into the bowel and you need surgery and have to wear a bag, also you have to have a Foley catheter for 1-2 weeks. I am looking into the Tulsa Pro which they do in Rochester , not in Phoenix. Considering my relatively low PSA at 6.62, Low Risk Decipher score of 0.38, tumor grade T1c and small volume tumor less than 1cc or 2% of prostate volume, I am considering Active Surveillance, at 70 my PCa may never metastasize in the next 10 years and I would more than likely die from some other cause. The ProtecT study in the UK shows no difference in mortality with Intermedate Risk patients over 15 years . 1/3 had surgery, 1/3 had radiation and 1/3 Active surveillance. Quality of life is much more important to me than quantity,

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@bluegill Wait, conspiracy theorists in the U.S. think canola oil is *bad* for you?!? That's a new one on me. Most people think it's the healthiest of the seed oils, though obviously not quite on par with olive oil.

Is this a rumour spread by corn (maize) growers to fight the competition? Utterly bizarre.

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North, that's just the tip of the iceberg. We've been slandering scientists and farmers for years down here, and I have to confess that I also did it for years. Until I started taking plant science courses at the university and getting to know scientists on a personal level.

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Profile picture for ranger44 @ranger44

I Had 4+3 Gleason, unfavorable Intermediate, Grade group 3 and I chose Active Surveillance and after 2.5 years and diet & exercise, cut out all sugar, I am happy to report, my PSA went from a high of 7.21 spring 2024 to 3.59 last summer and now stabilized in the 4.40 range. I will be 73 in October and I am happy with my choice. You are fortunate to have only a 3+4 favorable, and with decipher of .46 I would think you would be an excellent candidate for AS. Of course each person has to make their own choice, but for me quality of life was number one, the medical industrial complex is geared to treat, radiation, surgery or focal therapy, thats the choice they give you.
I posted this below on this forum 3/12/24 almost 2 1/2 years ago

I am 70 years old ( as of October 23) my PSA had gone from 4.24 to 6.62 in 6 months so my urologist ordered a Parametric MRI and a 4K score blood test, MRI showed a 12mm lesion on the right side mid gland and came back Pirads 4, the 4K score was the maximum at 95% of clinically significant cancer. Sure enough the MRI Fusion perineal biopsy at Mayo Phoenix show 9 of 23 cores cancer, with 6 at 70% 4+3=7 and 3 cores 40% 3+4= 7 and 14 cores benign. I had the PSMA PET which confirmed the tumor on the right, but no other spread outside the prostate. I then had the Decipher test and it came back low risk at 0.38. I looked into surgery and met the Mayo surgeon, who said at my age and weight ( 250 lbs) I was not a good candidate for surgery and he reiterated that it was major surgery with serious life changing side effects and possible major complications. After learning all the details of the surgery, there is no way I would even consider it. My prostate was 50.4 cc about the size of a lemon, they cut the whole thing out and to make up the missing 2+ inches of the urethra they pull the bladder neck down and the urethra up shortening your penis 1-1.5 inches, the cancer returns in about 20 - 30% of surgeries and you need further treatment like radiation or God forbid ADT and hormones. Radiation also has serious side effects and Erectile Dysfunction in 20-40% of cases, plus possible bowel problems. I then looked into Focal Therapy, talked with my Mayo Urologist yesterday, was really depressed that even the focal therapies like Hifu have side effects, ED in 20% of cases, possible rectal fistula, urine leaking into the bowel and you need surgery and have to wear a bag, also you have to have a Foley catheter for 1-2 weeks. I am looking into the Tulsa Pro which they do in Rochester , not in Phoenix. Considering my relatively low PSA at 6.62, Low Risk Decipher score of 0.38, tumor grade T1c and small volume tumor less than 1cc or 2% of prostate volume, I am considering Active Surveillance, at 70 my PCa may never metastasize in the next 10 years and I would more than likely die from some other cause. The ProtecT study in the UK shows no difference in mortality with Intermedate Risk patients over 15 years . 1/3 had surgery, 1/3 had radiation and 1/3 Active surveillance. Quality of life is much more important to me than quantity,

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@ranger44 Thanks for the encouraging reply! I would like nothing better than to share my results with results like you were able to acomplish. That gives me lots of hope. I saw the compilcations from every treatment and thought maybe the diet and exercise would put me in a better place after a year or so. Thanks for taking the time to share that with me. Very much appreciate it!

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Profile picture for northoftheborder @northoftheborder

@bluegill Wait, conspiracy theorists in the U.S. think canola oil is *bad* for you?!? That's a new one on me. Most people think it's the healthiest of the seed oils, though obviously not quite on par with olive oil.

Is this a rumour spread by corn (maize) growers to fight the competition? Utterly bizarre.

Jump to this post

@northoftheborder
It has nothing to do with conspiracy - Canola is bad for you. It is highly refined and processed oil. It was originally used only as industrial oil and than in 1970 scientists discovered that it can be "changed" and heavily processed to become "edible". There is no such thing as canola plant - Canola name is derived from "Canada" and "Oil" - Can-Ola . The oil is extracted form rapeseed and raw rapeseed is toxic and not only that - fields are sprayed with herbicides for easier collection and processing. If you go to @ turtbean new post about nutritionist consult you will find that that doctor told him not to use it. I stopped using it long time ago and was mad at cardiologist who suggested that crap of oil to my husband 20 yeas ago. I wonder to how many toxic chemicals my family was exposed to during consumption.
This is short version from AI:
Canola oil is produced through a multi-step industrial process that includes cleaning, heating and flaking, mechanical pressing, solvent extraction, and oil refining.
Bon appetit : (((

REPLY
Profile picture for bluegill @bluegill

North, that's just the tip of the iceberg. We've been slandering scientists and farmers for years down here, and I have to confess that I also did it for years. Until I started taking plant science courses at the university and getting to know scientists on a personal level.

Jump to this post

@bluegill Canola oil's just the default "neutral" cooking oil here in Canada (for when you don't want the flavour of olive oil). Vegetable and corn oil are available too, but not as widely used.

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Profile picture for ranger44 @ranger44

I Had 4+3 Gleason, unfavorable Intermediate, Grade group 3 and I chose Active Surveillance and after 2.5 years and diet & exercise, cut out all sugar, I am happy to report, my PSA went from a high of 7.21 spring 2024 to 3.59 last summer and now stabilized in the 4.40 range. I will be 73 in October and I am happy with my choice. You are fortunate to have only a 3+4 favorable, and with decipher of .46 I would think you would be an excellent candidate for AS. Of course each person has to make their own choice, but for me quality of life was number one, the medical industrial complex is geared to treat, radiation, surgery or focal therapy, thats the choice they give you.
I posted this below on this forum 3/12/24 almost 2 1/2 years ago

I am 70 years old ( as of October 23) my PSA had gone from 4.24 to 6.62 in 6 months so my urologist ordered a Parametric MRI and a 4K score blood test, MRI showed a 12mm lesion on the right side mid gland and came back Pirads 4, the 4K score was the maximum at 95% of clinically significant cancer. Sure enough the MRI Fusion perineal biopsy at Mayo Phoenix show 9 of 23 cores cancer, with 6 at 70% 4+3=7 and 3 cores 40% 3+4= 7 and 14 cores benign. I had the PSMA PET which confirmed the tumor on the right, but no other spread outside the prostate. I then had the Decipher test and it came back low risk at 0.38. I looked into surgery and met the Mayo surgeon, who said at my age and weight ( 250 lbs) I was not a good candidate for surgery and he reiterated that it was major surgery with serious life changing side effects and possible major complications. After learning all the details of the surgery, there is no way I would even consider it. My prostate was 50.4 cc about the size of a lemon, they cut the whole thing out and to make up the missing 2+ inches of the urethra they pull the bladder neck down and the urethra up shortening your penis 1-1.5 inches, the cancer returns in about 20 - 30% of surgeries and you need further treatment like radiation or God forbid ADT and hormones. Radiation also has serious side effects and Erectile Dysfunction in 20-40% of cases, plus possible bowel problems. I then looked into Focal Therapy, talked with my Mayo Urologist yesterday, was really depressed that even the focal therapies like Hifu have side effects, ED in 20% of cases, possible rectal fistula, urine leaking into the bowel and you need surgery and have to wear a bag, also you have to have a Foley catheter for 1-2 weeks. I am looking into the Tulsa Pro which they do in Rochester , not in Phoenix. Considering my relatively low PSA at 6.62, Low Risk Decipher score of 0.38, tumor grade T1c and small volume tumor less than 1cc or 2% of prostate volume, I am considering Active Surveillance, at 70 my PCa may never metastasize in the next 10 years and I would more than likely die from some other cause. The ProtecT study in the UK shows no difference in mortality with Intermedate Risk patients over 15 years . 1/3 had surgery, 1/3 had radiation and 1/3 Active surveillance. Quality of life is much more important to me than quantity,

Jump to this post

@ranger44
Thanks for sharing your story here, I am sure that it will help many with choosing their preferred way forward. I wish that my husband had better initial urologist. He conducted very passive AS and we were assured that there is "nothing to worry about". My husband initially changed his diet and exercise level and his PSA went down but after we were told that he has only 10% of chance to develop aggressive cancer in 30 years we relaxed since my husband had good Mediterranean diet and normal weight and was in sports anyways - it was a big mistake.

I just want to add though, that surgery and ADT do not cause same side effects for all. My husband had surgery and recovered in record time and there are zero changes in size or function of his penis. He unfortunately now needs ADT and RT and again, he has zero side effects from ADT (as of now) - so if anybody here ever needs treatments I want you all to know that they do not automatically bring with them some terrible SA.

REPLY
Profile picture for surftohealth88 @surftohealth88

@northoftheborder
It has nothing to do with conspiracy - Canola is bad for you. It is highly refined and processed oil. It was originally used only as industrial oil and than in 1970 scientists discovered that it can be "changed" and heavily processed to become "edible". There is no such thing as canola plant - Canola name is derived from "Canada" and "Oil" - Can-Ola . The oil is extracted form rapeseed and raw rapeseed is toxic and not only that - fields are sprayed with herbicides for easier collection and processing. If you go to @ turtbean new post about nutritionist consult you will find that that doctor told him not to use it. I stopped using it long time ago and was mad at cardiologist who suggested that crap of oil to my husband 20 yeas ago. I wonder to how many toxic chemicals my family was exposed to during consumption.
This is short version from AI:
Canola oil is produced through a multi-step industrial process that includes cleaning, heating and flaking, mechanical pressing, solvent extraction, and oil refining.
Bon appetit : (((

Jump to this post

@surftohealth88 Industrial rapeseed oil comes from a different plant variety, which is high in erucic acid. The ultra-low-acid rapeseeds used for canola oil wouldn't be suitable for the industrial version, and vice-versa. It also contains half the saturated fat of olive oil (but I'm not claiming that olive oil is unhealthy; on the contrary, I also use it a lot).

In any case, you're welcome to use any cooking oil you want, of course. I was just surprised because, living in Canada, I was entirely unaware of the fierce anti-canola-oil rhetoric down in the U.S. For us, it's just the default cooking oil; being opposed to canola oil would be like claiming that the colour beige is overstimulating, Cheez Wiz is spicy, or vanilla ice cream has too strong a flavour — we don't expect it to arouse that level of passion. 🙂

p.s. I use olive oil for anything where the flavour is appropriate, including pizza dough, but I don't always want olive undertones in my food.

REPLY
Profile picture for northoftheborder @northoftheborder

@surftohealth88 Industrial rapeseed oil comes from a different plant variety, which is high in erucic acid. The ultra-low-acid rapeseeds used for canola oil wouldn't be suitable for the industrial version, and vice-versa. It also contains half the saturated fat of olive oil (but I'm not claiming that olive oil is unhealthy; on the contrary, I also use it a lot).

In any case, you're welcome to use any cooking oil you want, of course. I was just surprised because, living in Canada, I was entirely unaware of the fierce anti-canola-oil rhetoric down in the U.S. For us, it's just the default cooking oil; being opposed to canola oil would be like claiming that the colour beige is overstimulating, Cheez Wiz is spicy, or vanilla ice cream has too strong a flavour — we don't expect it to arouse that level of passion. 🙂

p.s. I use olive oil for anything where the flavour is appropriate, including pizza dough, but I don't always want olive undertones in my food.

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@northoftheborder

Thanks North for your insight 🙂. I never heard about Canola oil before I came to the USA and I never used it before cardio doctor told us to use it, so I had no idea about it's origin and even less about the heavy industrial processing that is involved in producing it.

I stay away from processed food in general as much as it is possible. I even buy organic cold pressed virgin olive oil. Even "edible" canola is heavily processed with solvents and it is heavily refined, bleached, and deodorized using high heat and chemical so it is kicked out of my pantry for good. lol

I learned about all of this not from "media" or lobbyists of any kind but during some other research I did about glucose resistance and such. I did not even know until today that there is some "rhetoric" involved. Anything that is heavily processed by using chemicals can not be good but as you said, we all have different "tolerance" to what is "toxic" and what should be avoided. 😌 I am very cautions person in general. 😜 If there is a better choice available (of anything) - it will be utilized lol.

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Profile picture for surftohealth88 @surftohealth88

@northoftheborder
It has nothing to do with conspiracy - Canola is bad for you. It is highly refined and processed oil. It was originally used only as industrial oil and than in 1970 scientists discovered that it can be "changed" and heavily processed to become "edible". There is no such thing as canola plant - Canola name is derived from "Canada" and "Oil" - Can-Ola . The oil is extracted form rapeseed and raw rapeseed is toxic and not only that - fields are sprayed with herbicides for easier collection and processing. If you go to @ turtbean new post about nutritionist consult you will find that that doctor told him not to use it. I stopped using it long time ago and was mad at cardiologist who suggested that crap of oil to my husband 20 yeas ago. I wonder to how many toxic chemicals my family was exposed to during consumption.
This is short version from AI:
Canola oil is produced through a multi-step industrial process that includes cleaning, heating and flaking, mechanical pressing, solvent extraction, and oil refining.
Bon appetit : (((

Jump to this post

@surftohealth88 I hate to break your bubble but all food oils including olive are produced by industrial processes.
Minimal processing are the oils labeled Extra Virgin and Cold Pressed. This just emulsifies the seed and then mechanically separates the oil by pressing or spinning. Depending on the source that extracts 30% to 50% of the oil. To get the oil out of the residue it is heated and subject to solvent extraction (hexane or ethyl acetate). These processes introduce impurities, so it then goes through a chemical clarification process. Any cheap oil, including olive will go through this process. In the US it is more likely that olive oil will be counterfeit than any other source. In EU residual solvent in oil must be less than 2 ppm. No testing is done in the US and the use of solvent in the production process does not need to be disclosed. If you find Extra Virgin Cold Pressed Canola / Rapeseed oil it will be good quality and healthy.

Wild rapeseed has about 40% Erucic acid. Through over a decade of selective breeding Canadian agricultural scientists reduced this to less than 2% (required in both US & Canada to sell for human consumption) that both improved the taste and shelf life. Like most cheap oils (Sun, Safflower, Corn, Soy, Peanut) almost all goes through the full industrial processing. As far as the name it was changed for the same reason there are not thousands of Kroc's hamburger joints across the US -- the name raises a lot of negative associations.

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