Ashamed: I think about (and plan for) dying. Do you?

Posted by olgamarie @olgamarie, Feb 7, 2021

Hi, did anyone, after there cancer and COPD diagnosis start to think about dying? After almost four years, I still do, all the time. Planning my funeral, how to leave my children, how it will be to be in a coffin. Bizarre, I know.

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Lung Cancer Support Group.

I do not think it is bizarre. The absolutely best thing you can do for your family is having all your plans set before you go. A lot of people are superstitious about this and are afraid something "will happen" if they make arrangements. So not true. You should make plans, know what you want and take steps to make it happen. Leaving it to heirs, family, or whomever, just causes bad feelings and chaos.

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How to say this, without being offensive. Sure, I think about all those things, sometimes. But my Faith gives me hope for more than you hope for. The cure for depression is hope. If you have hope, you're not depressed. The person who just lost their beloved is sad, of course. But if they have the hope to see them once again, in heaven, it soothes their souls. If they know their loved one no longer suffers, that too helps them. There is a physical state of depression which very much can use prescriptions that work( for an individual). So too, St. John's Wort for those who can't do pharmacudicals. But we are all dying. Think about that for a minute. It's true. The moment one of we humans is born, we are destined to die, someday. Pondering that, is not wrong or odd. It's pragmatic. The older you get, the more this becomes a reality that can be talked about with other oldies. Yet, who says someone can't think about it earlier than when they get to 55, or 60, or 65? I, personallly, have faith (trust) in a God, so I have no fear of dying. I'd rather it not be a painful end, sure. There are whole books about what that "eternal" life will be like. What does someone who doesn't have that to look forward to, do? Not sure. But to think on it, to ponder, and to make decisions that would prolong your life, better the quality of your life here on Earth, those are not sick, or weird. It's normal, if I may use the word "normal" here.

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@harriethodgson1

My husband died almost 2 years ago. Writing his obituary took me two days. This made me think of the tasks that awaited my daughter after I died. I wrote my obituary, bought two file cabinets and filed important papers, de-cluttered a bit (I have more to do) and labeled my apartment cupboards--photos, books I'd written etc.

In addition, I sent her the name of my lawyer and financial advisor. When I sent my obituary to my daughter, she wouldn't read it, and assured me I have lots of time left. At age 86 I'm not so sure. Doing these things were acts of love and will ease my daughter's burdens when I'm gone.

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My husband is in the nursing home and I am in poor health. I did the same as you. I agree with the previous poster. Now that is done, you are free to think of things that can bring you peace instead of dread or worry. We all live an unfinished life, but there are things that we can do that are acts of love for those who must deal with our passing. I don't know where we got this silly idea that we are to be ashamed of the natural feelings that come with the milestones of life. It is like trying to ignore the elephant in the room. Please feel free to say anything you want. It helps people like me to believe in ourselves. The things that I pray for in my latter years is wisdom and peace.

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@harriethodgson1

My husband died almost 2 years ago. Writing his obituary took me two days. This made me think of the tasks that awaited my daughter after I died. I wrote my obituary, bought two file cabinets and filed important papers, de-cluttered a bit (I have more to do) and labeled my apartment cupboards--photos, books I'd written etc.

In addition, I sent her the name of my lawyer and financial advisor. When I sent my obituary to my daughter, she wouldn't read it, and assured me I have lots of time left. At age 86 I'm not so sure. Doing these things were acts of love and will ease my daughter's burdens when I'm gone.

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You did everything absolutely right and have nothing to be ashamed of. In fact the reverse is true. During my working life I worked for two probate and trust attorneys for 23 years. I know first hand what happens when plans and information are not in place. Bravo to you!

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My husband died almost 2 years ago. Writing his obituary took me two days. This made me think of the tasks that awaited my daughter after I died. I wrote my obituary, bought two file cabinets and filed important papers, de-cluttered a bit (I have more to do) and labeled my apartment cupboards--photos, books I'd written etc.

In addition, I sent her the name of my lawyer and financial advisor. When I sent my obituary to my daughter, she wouldn't read it, and assured me I have lots of time left. At age 86 I'm not so sure. Doing these things were acts of love and will ease my daughter's burdens when I'm gone.

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well , I am honest & do think of that SLIP- I think we slip from here into our second & eternal home . Will I be in the dark floating out in space on my journey & will I be directed like Dorothy on that yellow brick road . I think If I felt this life were all it was here on earth It would panic me & then the thought of a coffin being placed away would bother me ...I believe my last breath frees me of this life where begins that journey I have always heard about . Oh sure it can be scary because death is a mystery but it is all part of living .

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@erikas

@olgamarie Thinking about death is never shameful and it is actually healthy. I understand our culture places a taboo on death but it's an inevitable part of life.

Do your thoughts about death lead you to live a more fulfilling life and live in the hear and now, or are they a pattern of rumination that impedes connection and living a meaningful life?

Regardless of where you are in this broad spectrum, you may wish to look into the readings by Viktor Frankl. He is the father of Existential Therapy.

Viktor Frankl actually spent time in a concentration camp and lost most of his family members there during WWII. From this horrendous experience he learned that the people that accepted their unspeakable position, and the almost certainty of their death, were the individuals that were resilient and more likely to survive. After his escape Viktor Frankl went on to be one of the most inspiring people in psychology and modern philosophy.

If this is something that resonates with you, there are therapists that specialize in existential therapy. Psychology Today does have a nice search function that locates local therapists with any particular specialty. Online options are plentiful as well.

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I really got serious about my death and dying when I was waiting for a Cancer Diagnosis from Mayo Clinic. It was a 2 week wait time, and I went thru several phases of grief. First, I cried and yelled “why me?” - then came “why not me?” And then came the acceptance of my death: Just as we are born, we will die. There are no exceptions! I have had many relatives and friends I loved that had died and here I was, still living! “Why am I still here?” prompted me to volunteer at a nearby hospital for 2 years! I loved it there: the dedication of the nurses, the doctors, the loving volunteers I worked with and still in touch with. I will always miss being at the hospital, but now I am my husband’s caregiver, the best job of all!
By the way, I did have throat cancer and my thyroid was removed, took 2 ablations back in 2006, and so far, so good! Thank you, God!
My husband and I made funeral plans, all paid for. It is a good feeling to know our families will not be burdened with our final plans. I think a lot of people think about their death but don’t talk about it.

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@stlsampsondev

I think it is good to leave a plan for your children. That is normal. I have Lynch Syndrome which means I am at high risk for cancer and an auto immune disease called Rheumatoid Arthritis and severe asthma. I have to screen for lots of cancers I can get. I am also 43 and in menopause due to that at age 40. They found premalignant cells in my uterus and took it out and ovaries six months later. That was super hard because we wanted more kids. I have had lots of surgery in the past two years and still have the stress of work too which is hard because I am tired a lot. Right now the doctors are concerned about a blood cancer because of my blood counts and symptoms. Might have to do a bone marrow biopsy.

One thing I started doing when I got sick was make a memory book for each of my kid about family memories. And I also am doing a family history book like pics when I was kids and pics of their grandparents and great grandparents so they have their family history. I do it on Shutterfly.

One thing I would say, while it is good to plan out dying, you should make sure to also enjoy living with what time you have with your kids and make as many happy memories and go on trips if you can. I understand there can be limitations. For me even just taking my kids to the beach or park is a first step. I would love to go on vacation with them but haven't done it for a few years. I have been to Mayo in Rochester seven trips this year and another one coming up on June. I do what I can within my limits.

When I have bad days I focus on the memory books and things to leave for my kids. On the good days though I focus on that day and enjoying the most of every moment. I try new things in order to focus more on having fun and distracting myself. I recently went on a stand up paddle board in the water which was really fun. I can't run anymore so I find new things I can try. Next weekend we are going to take out our son who is 10 for the first time.

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Hi, @stlsampsondev Thanks for a great post! I love your reminder that we must all carpe diem! I also love your idea of a memory book. My mother-in-law did a riff on that by giving each of her children their "baby book" with an "appendix" of photos and notes from after their baby book years. Everyone in her family loved them and it also opened up a huge amount of story swapping and memory sharing between mother and child as well as sibling-to-sibling.

One thing I've done is put our family tree on a private site so someday when some offspring decide they wonder about their roots they'll be able to take a look. It was fun and already some grandchildren and cousins have also used it for school projects.

I also wrote a biography/autobiography of my wife and I for our children. I called it "Mom and Dad Before We Were Mom and Dad". I figure as they mature they will find it interesting know what we were like before they added to our lives. Plus it was great fun thinking back on all those years. It includes the good, the bad, and the somewhat ugly (at times). I want them to know we were real people, what impacted our lives, the paths we meandered to find each other, and our earliest years together.

Before I go take my pups out for walks in the pouring rain here, I'll add one thing on planning. For many years I worked with donors of nonprofit organizations. Many of those folks did not want to write a will or estate plan, etc. The one piece of advice I gave that had the most impact the most often was that if a person does not have a will, they actually DO have a will -- the government has one for you. The laws in place dictate how and where your money and assets will go when you die without a will, so wouldn't you rather say what you want rather than the government?

Time to grab the pups and my rain gear!
Strength, Courage, & Peace

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I think it is good to leave a plan for your children. That is normal. I have Lynch Syndrome which means I am at high risk for cancer and an auto immune disease called Rheumatoid Arthritis and severe asthma. I have to screen for lots of cancers I can get. I am also 43 and in menopause due to that at age 40. They found premalignant cells in my uterus and took it out and ovaries six months later. That was super hard because we wanted more kids. I have had lots of surgery in the past two years and still have the stress of work too which is hard because I am tired a lot. Right now the doctors are concerned about a blood cancer because of my blood counts and symptoms. Might have to do a bone marrow biopsy.

One thing I started doing when I got sick was make a memory book for each of my kid about family memories. And I also am doing a family history book like pics when I was kids and pics of their grandparents and great grandparents so they have their family history. I do it on Shutterfly.

One thing I would say, while it is good to plan out dying, you should make sure to also enjoy living with what time you have with your kids and make as many happy memories and go on trips if you can. I understand there can be limitations. For me even just taking my kids to the beach or park is a first step. I would love to go on vacation with them but haven't done it for a few years. I have been to Mayo in Rochester seven trips this year and another one coming up on June. I do what I can within my limits.

When I have bad days I focus on the memory books and things to leave for my kids. On the good days though I focus on that day and enjoying the most of every moment. I try new things in order to focus more on having fun and distracting myself. I recently went on a stand up paddle board in the water which was really fun. I can't run anymore so I find new things I can try. Next weekend we are going to take out our son who is 10 for the first time.

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@thisismarilynb

It absolutely is not bizarre. Before I retired I worked for a probate and trust attorney for 23 years. I saw first-hand how devastating it can be for the survivors when no final plans are in place for their deceased loved one. I told my husband that was not going to happen to us. We will all die sometime, so be ready. That's what we did. Researched and chose. We made the plans and paid for it. A few months ago my husband died. I am still a wreck, but deciding what to do while I was numb with grief was not something I had to deal with. I think people are too superstitious. You will not die just because you have made your plans.

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@thisismarilynb So good to see you post this here, and know you are looking around the Mayo Connect forums, lending your experience!

Like you, I have been in the legal field, and dealt with the aftermath of what can happen when plans were not in place. Knowing there is paperwork done, that can be modified if the need or desire arises, can be such a relief as we march through our days. The old adage of "you never know when your number is called" is so true!
Ginger

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