Any good videos on Kegal bladder exercises?

Posted by mhordes @mhordes, Aug 13 1:11pm

Starting 20 Prostrate Proton sessions in September and looking for tips to keep my bladder full for each treatment. No ATD/Hormone RX with treatment really glad about that. AI test came back negative. 4+3 Gleason 7 intermediate risk/unfavorable.
80 years old with 6 out of 18 cores cancer one on nerve bundle /70%. AI test showed low risk for spread outside prostate. Very anxious with the whole experience. Could have gone with Active Surveillance but even though my situation was borderline decided proton treatment best for me. So far very pleased with MD Anderson Proton Center/very patient focused. Dr Choi RO

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Prostate Cancer Support Group.

Youtube is full of them but I strongly advise you to see a pelvic floor therapist because there IS a wrong way and if you do them the wrong way then you can make things far worse than they are now.

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@mhordes
Is the MD Anderson Proton Center located in Jacksonville Florida? I had my proton radiation done at UFHPTI.

Have you gone through simulation at MD Anderson. That is where the do a dry run for setting up your treatments. At UFHPT they have a specific bed for each patient and is molded to you during simulation. They will have you drink 16 ounces of water 30 minutes prior to simulation and then take low dose xrays and CTs to look at your bladder. If they need to lower or raise they amount of water you drink prior to treatments this is one of the test done.

At UFHPTI you are required to come in 30 minutes prior to your reservation. At that time you have to drink the amount of water they instructed you to drink. The 30 minutes is to allow the water to from stomach to get into bladder. I liked this as you don't have to drink water prior to coming and try to drive with a full bladder, etc.

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Profile picture for jc76 @jc76

@mhordes
Is the MD Anderson Proton Center located in Jacksonville Florida? I had my proton radiation done at UFHPTI.

Have you gone through simulation at MD Anderson. That is where the do a dry run for setting up your treatments. At UFHPT they have a specific bed for each patient and is molded to you during simulation. They will have you drink 16 ounces of water 30 minutes prior to simulation and then take low dose xrays and CTs to look at your bladder. If they need to lower or raise they amount of water you drink prior to treatments this is one of the test done.

At UFHPTI you are required to come in 30 minutes prior to your reservation. At that time you have to drink the amount of water they instructed you to drink. The 30 minutes is to allow the water to from stomach to get into bladder. I liked this as you don't have to drink water prior to coming and try to drive with a full bladder, etc.

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thanks helpful. simulation in early sept Houston MDA Proton Center

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Ask your physician for a referral for "Pelvic Floor Physical Therapy" (PFPT). This is a subspecialty of Physical Therapy, mostly used by new postpartum mothers to regain any degree of lost urinary continence; however, a very large percentage of men use this as well. In fact, while I await my appointment, there is often a man who has just ended his session with my therapist, before I start my session. And I am often leaving, and her next patient is a man. What I am leading to, is that I belong to a large, well known health system for my Medicare Advantage HMO plan. My particular PFPT therapist sends me various videos that visually show, and with commentary, guide you how to do the various exercises. They come through an e-mail link to a website called "MedBridge". I simply login and watch the videos and keep them running as I do the exercise. I can tell you that the "basic" Kegel exercises that your Urologist might give you on a 1-2 page handout only scratch the surface of what a PFPT therapist does for you. There is an amazing array of Kegel-type exercises that your therapist will teach you to do, and with good explanation as to how that exercise really helps. There is a strong connection to your pelvic floor muscles and your diaphragm, and therefore your breathing. Half of my challenges were that I was holding my breath as I did certain exercises...it seemed to be the natural, unconscious/automatci thing to do, but my therapist said the opposite: I had to learn to continue to breathe while doing the exercises to move the diaphragm. When the diaphragm moves "downward, so too does your pelvic floor. When your diaphragm moves upward, so too does your pelvic floor. The rate or speed at which you inhale and exhale during Kegel's is very important. It has been a large learning curve for me...my therapist had to modify several exercises for me because the breathing part - all subconscious - made no sense for what I consciously needed to do while working/lifting my pelvic floor muscles during the exercises. It's all kind of odd, unnatural stuff that I equate to when every kid learns that little game of patting your head while rubbing your stomach round and round. It takes conscious coordinated action to do the exercises correctly, but once you "get it", then you're good to go. So, ask your Urologist for an order for PFPT. It might even be good to start before surgery to gain some extra strength in your pelvic floor. Good luck.

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Do you think Medicare pays for PT home visits to learn the process?

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recommendation for specialty PFM PT is perfect. I see one and it really helps.

However, just in case you cannot find one that has experience with males Michelle Kenway is pretty good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ7EfGu03-0 to get started while hunting down a good PT

DO NOT DO TOO MANY!!

Technique, form , not holding your breath ( as noted above) are more important that frequency and even exertion. It is a set up to believe that if you push yourself, do as many as possible you will get better faster. It will backfire and I can attest to this.
Rest is very important. I am now making a point of lying down three times a day on my back to allow some ongoing recovery . I am also learning- very slowly- to recognize when I have done too much and try to back off

I get caught up in feeling a little bit better, or starting to feel a little 'normal' then I act like my old self and usually within a day or two there is a major regression.
Patience, technique, good advice from a trained PT, rest, patience,

the American Urological association endorses Kegels and site research that points to a majority of males are incontinent following RARP and most tend to get back to baseline around 8-9-10-11 months ( with considerable variance) When you start realizing some progress,, you can look at the charts and adopt some realistic expectations. If you beat the odds, great, if not there are options but it seems for most a year seems like the 'line in the sand; Meanwhile, I want to do everything I can to stay on track, not blow it up,

Be careful to find a PFM PT that has experience with males post RARP they are out there. There are also tons of PTs that advertise they can help with PFM, but get into this. I tend to think males following RARP are somewhat different than postpartum or older women with weak PFMs

I wish you good luck

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I did not know that Kegel's can help with radiation therapy caused incontinence. Good to know.

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Profile picture for rlpostrp @rlpostrp

Ask your physician for a referral for "Pelvic Floor Physical Therapy" (PFPT). This is a subspecialty of Physical Therapy, mostly used by new postpartum mothers to regain any degree of lost urinary continence; however, a very large percentage of men use this as well. In fact, while I await my appointment, there is often a man who has just ended his session with my therapist, before I start my session. And I am often leaving, and her next patient is a man. What I am leading to, is that I belong to a large, well known health system for my Medicare Advantage HMO plan. My particular PFPT therapist sends me various videos that visually show, and with commentary, guide you how to do the various exercises. They come through an e-mail link to a website called "MedBridge". I simply login and watch the videos and keep them running as I do the exercise. I can tell you that the "basic" Kegel exercises that your Urologist might give you on a 1-2 page handout only scratch the surface of what a PFPT therapist does for you. There is an amazing array of Kegel-type exercises that your therapist will teach you to do, and with good explanation as to how that exercise really helps. There is a strong connection to your pelvic floor muscles and your diaphragm, and therefore your breathing. Half of my challenges were that I was holding my breath as I did certain exercises...it seemed to be the natural, unconscious/automatci thing to do, but my therapist said the opposite: I had to learn to continue to breathe while doing the exercises to move the diaphragm. When the diaphragm moves "downward, so too does your pelvic floor. When your diaphragm moves upward, so too does your pelvic floor. The rate or speed at which you inhale and exhale during Kegel's is very important. It has been a large learning curve for me...my therapist had to modify several exercises for me because the breathing part - all subconscious - made no sense for what I consciously needed to do while working/lifting my pelvic floor muscles during the exercises. It's all kind of odd, unnatural stuff that I equate to when every kid learns that little game of patting your head while rubbing your stomach round and round. It takes conscious coordinated action to do the exercises correctly, but once you "get it", then you're good to go. So, ask your Urologist for an order for PFPT. It might even be good to start before surgery to gain some extra strength in your pelvic floor. Good luck.

Jump to this post

I had pelvic physical therapy after RP surgery, but I did not see a therapist in person. I'm in Phoenix and my therapist was on Zoom from Chicago. My incontinence improved, but I'm not sure how much the therapist helped. I had a drug (Gemtesa at first, then some generic version). The exercises might have been just as effective without the therapist. Half the time the therapist had me on one screen and another patient on another screen. The exercises appear to have been helpful but I can't say I credit the therapist.

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