2.5 Yrs After Proton Rad PSA reached 1.05

Posted by trchar @trchar, Jul 12 12:54pm

Hematologist suggested orgovyx and zytyga, been on for 2-months PSA this week < .1, also previous psma/pet showed small lymph node metastasis, was going to have additional radiation but now with such a low PSA I’m thinking to avoid the new radiation. Any thoughts would be appreciated

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The data for those patients were retrospectively analyzed. They used 68Ga-PSMA PET/CT and considered factors such as androgen deprivation therapy, PSA doubling time, PSA before PET/CT, T−/N-category and Gleason score. So, they accounted for the status of the cancer.

You’ll find regular mention of PSMA PET being most useful at PSAs above 0.2 ng/mL (like here: https://www.petimagingflorida.com/helpie_faq/at-what-psa-level-should-i-get-a-psma-pet-scan/#:~:text=Generally%20speaking%2C%20PSMA%20PET%20Scans,levels%20above%200.2ng%2FmL.), which is why you’ll often see doctors wait until PSA of 0.2 before using PSMA PET.

The more aggressive the prostate cancer, the more PSMA avid uptake of the radiotracer there is. Also, the more aggressive the cancer, the more effective Pluvicto (Lutetium-177) is at treating it.

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Castration sensitive or castration resistant, was wondering if there is a difference?

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Profile picture for jeff Marchi @jeffmarc

It’s probably a little bit of both. At .2 there may not be any cancer, I know someone who has had multiple metastasis they’re at .2 and their doctor gives them PSMA pet scans every three months. This is the case where the doctor is trying to catch the metastasis when they start showing up. This is the sort of thing that Scholtz believes in.

If somebody’s PSA is at .2 that means that their prostate cancer is not producing a lot of PSA. That would be more likely due to Small metastasis that aren’t producing much or nothing is there, and that’s just a lot below what a normal male PSA should be.

Unfortunately, there’s no easy way to figure out whether or not there are metastasis. A better option would be a PSE test to see if there’s actually something to scan.

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Hi Jeff is Medicare covering the PSMA scans every 3-months I’m not sure they would?

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Profile picture for trchar @trchar

Hi Jeff is Medicare covering the PSMA scans every 3-months I’m not sure they would?

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I’m not sure how old this guy was. The thing is if a doctor says it is required they will usually pay. May take some justification.

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Profile picture for jeff Marchi @jeffmarc

I’m not sure how old this guy was. The thing is if a doctor says it is required they will usually pay. May take some justification.

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Right he may have had private insurance I’m on original Medicare they cover all my oral cancer meds, which is a true blessing.

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Profile picture for brianjarvis @brianjarvis

The data for those patients were retrospectively analyzed. They used 68Ga-PSMA PET/CT and considered factors such as androgen deprivation therapy, PSA doubling time, PSA before PET/CT, T−/N-category and Gleason score. So, they accounted for the status of the cancer.

You’ll find regular mention of PSMA PET being most useful at PSAs above 0.2 ng/mL (like here: https://www.petimagingflorida.com/helpie_faq/at-what-psa-level-should-i-get-a-psma-pet-scan/#:~:text=Generally%20speaking%2C%20PSMA%20PET%20Scans,levels%20above%200.2ng%2FmL.), which is why you’ll often see doctors wait until PSA of 0.2 before using PSMA PET.

The more aggressive the prostate cancer, the more PSMA avid uptake of the radiotracer there is. Also, the more aggressive the cancer, the more effective Pluvicto (Lutetium-177) is at treating it.

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Hey brianjarvis, is that also the case for the most aggressive cancers which exhibit very low PSA? Is the numerical value consistent with uptake? I would think not…
Then the older Axumin or choline PET would be more useful. BUT, how would an RO know this? You could be riddled with metastasis and show little or no uptake on PSMA, couldn’t you?
It almost takes the breath away not knowing what you don’t know!!😖

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Profile picture for heavyphil @heavyphil

Hey brianjarvis, is that also the case for the most aggressive cancers which exhibit very low PSA? Is the numerical value consistent with uptake? I would think not…
Then the older Axumin or choline PET would be more useful. BUT, how would an RO know this? You could be riddled with metastasis and show little or no uptake on PSMA, couldn’t you?
It almost takes the breath away not knowing what you don’t know!!😖

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This is the reason I attend in-person, virtual, and FB forums like this. I realize that my doctor can’t know everything. But if I see/hear what 10 other guys’ doctors told them, I’m that much wiser.

I’ve read that when Mayo Clinic uses PSMA PET scans that show nothing (even though they know something’s wrong due to rising PSA), that they fall back to C11 Choline PET/CT. Other centers go back to Axumin (F18-Fluciclovine) PET/CT, while others use the much older F18-FDG (Fluoro-2-Deoxyglucose) PET/CT (if they think the cancer is aggressive enough).

What Dr. Johnson from Mayo Clinic says is that (usually) the more aggressive the cancer, the more avid the uptake of the PSMA radiotracer (https://youtu.be/JoJomACA5UM). In that video he goes so far as to say that the more aggressive the prostate cancer, the better Pluvicto (Lutetium-177) works.

When I was in discussions with my RO, there were a number of things I told him that either he had never done or had never heard of. (This always led to fantastic patent-doctor discussions between us.)

Yes, one could be “…riddled with metastasis and show little or no uptake on PSMA.” But, we have so many tools in the toolkit available to us, that one of then would have given some indication of potential spread.

Use all the tools available (that insurance will pay for).

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