1. < Osteoporosis & Bone Health

Improve bone density and strength without medication?

Posted by plav @plav, Dec 20, 2023

Any luck improving bone density and strength without medication? It seems the medications only mildly help ... and they only help some patients; some studies show the slight improvement in density does not mean quality bone was built. I'm not comfortable with moving forward with the treatments just because "that's what we give patients with osteoporosis". There seems to be no room for education or discussion, or research into actual results or other options.

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sallyj2 | @sallyj2 | Dec 22, 2023
In reply to @gently "I might choose Tymlos with the lumbar structure at risk. If you make that choice be..." + (show)
@gently

I might choose Tymlos with the lumbar structure at risk. If you make that choice be sure and follow windyshore. She took the clicks in a graduating measure to allow her body time to adjust and avoid side effects.
Either is a good choice.
wishing you the best luck

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Thank you!

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sallyj2 | @sallyj2 | Dec 22, 2023
In reply to @lynn59 "Oh wow that is quite different from my prescription if I’m reading it correctly. 2mg estrogen..." + (show)
@lynn59

Oh wow that is quite different from my prescription if I’m reading it correctly. 2mg estrogen versus my .025 mg estrogen patch …. And 50 mg progesterone versus my 100 mg. I’ll have to research these doses to help explain the differences. Thanks so much. Do you mind sharing your age and years since menopause).

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66. Age since menopause is difficult to determine. Had hysterectomy 13 years ago, but kept an ovary until four years ago. Ovary was definitely working until five years ago. Hope that helps.

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1 reply
sallyj2 | @sallyj2 | Dec 22, 2023
In reply to @gently "Are you taking D3? MK2-4 more than once a day? 45mg is the "japanese" dose divided..." + (show)
@gently

Are you taking D3? MK2-4 more than once a day? 45mg is the "japanese" dose divided into 15mg doses. I''ve read 70 ng/ml is optimal for D. Why do you quit for several months?
The article isn't new, there have been subsequent (but where are they)
Yeah a lot of small studies and then disclaimers from the NIH.

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MK-4 caused my Lipoprotein a to rise, so I stopped taking it. I’m waiting to try MK-7, which is supposed to do the opposite. Tried DIM with my hormones and it elevated blood pressure. We have to be careful with supplements, too.

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1 reply
gently | @gently | Dec 23, 2023
In reply to @koleke "I just went to a PA who spends all of his time with osteoporosis patients. He..." + (show)
@koleke

I just went to a PA who spends all of his time with osteoporosis patients. He reviewed my dexa scans, diet, supplements and spent over an hour with me talking about my 10 year risk factor and how to get my risk lowered. He was very informative and confident in his beliefs. He even did a letter grade scoring of most of the medications offered for bone building. He also gave me the information handouts from the Royal Osteoporosis Society from Great Britain. What I'm reading is Evenity gets an A++ for bone building quickly, but is usually for those who have already had a fracture. And I see lots of possible side effects. Any opinions? I am a healthy, active 70 year old woman with a -2.8 T-score.

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koleke,
at -2.8 I would want to take either Forteo or Tymlos. I would take an anabolic drug because I'm frightened of fracturing. Is your well informed PA recommending one or another?
I'm avoiding Evenity because of the cardiac black box. Some dismiss the signal citing a design flaw in the clinical trial, but I'm waiting for the real world trial results. Other adverse effects are miserable for some, though minor for others.
I chose Forteo because it is a lower dose than Tymlos with fairly equal effect. I've been taking Forteo for 9 months without any side effects.
I've been looking more closely at Tymlos. It develops a lower resorptive rate than Forteo and may have a longer period of time when it is building bone (called the anabolic window).
Either is a good choice.
Because we are active we have a different, I think higher, fracture risk.
Did your PA give them B or A?

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koleke | @koleke | Dec 23, 2023

Thank you for that information! He has rated Forteo an A++ but says I don't qualify for it. When I was 18 I had a ruptured eardrum and had it replaced. There were complications and they did a series of radiation directly to the ear drum. He said that is considered radiation therapy so I should avoid Forteo. Next best is Evenity. Still undecided...

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2 replies
gravity3 | @gravity3 | Dec 23, 2023

Perhaps a new provider.?

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windyshores | @windyshores | Dec 23, 2023

I wonder if the dose difference between Forteo and Tymlos is due to the differences in how they work. (see below) Perhaps Forteo is more direct. When they gave me Forteo in the office I had to stay there for 90 minutes because I could barely breathe, I was dizzy and my heart raced. I chose Tymlos ultimately (It was not available when I tried Forteo) because the pen is adjustable. I started at 2 clicks and moved up slowly. There are 8 clicks in a full dose and I had excellent gains on 6-7 clicks.

One piece of info online:
"Forteo is a lab-made version of human parathyroid hormone (PTH) and Tymlos is a version of human parathyroid hormone-protein. These two drugs are both similar to the PTH that your body produces naturally."

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2 replies
sc614 | @sc614 | Dec 23, 2023
In reply to @cpd54 "I’ll check the Berberine out. I do know selenium Helps muscles but it can be toxic..." + (show)
@cpd54

I’ll check the Berberine out. I do know selenium
Helps muscles but it can be toxic if you take to much.
Thanks for info

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I eat 1 -at most 2 -Brazil nuts a day for selenium (mindful of toxicity as you said)
Wishing for an in house blood lab to test all these helpful nutrients!

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joyboudreau | @joyboudreau | Dec 23, 2023
In reply to @susanjane77 "I have never heard about the bone coach program nor the yoga for osteoporosis by Fishman...." + (show)
@susanjane77

I have never heard about the bone coach program nor the yoga for osteoporosis by Fishman. Could you please tell me where I could get more information about both. Thanks!

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Search Fishman Yoga. Lots of entries in YouTube.

Goggle Bone Coach.

I am new here and not allowed to post the links. Sorry.

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gently | @gently | Dec 23, 2023
In reply to @koleke "Thank you for that information! He has rated Forteo an A++ but says I don't qualify..." + (show)
@koleke

Thank you for that information! He has rated Forteo an A++ but says I don't qualify for it. When I was 18 I had a ruptured eardrum and had it replaced. There were complications and they did a series of radiation directly to the ear drum. He said that is considered radiation therapy so I should avoid Forteo. Next best is Evenity. Still undecided...

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Koleke, Forteo had a black box warning about the possiblility of bone cancer. Patients who had prior radiation treatment were considered at additional risk. The black box has been removed as twenty plus years of clinical and real world trials have disproven the risk.
I had intense radiation and have been on Forteo for nine months.
https://www.rtihs.org/updates-and-events/forteor-post-market-osteosarcoma-surveillance-program-real-world-data
The defunct warning includes Tymlos, so if it isn't Evenity would you be on a bisphosphonate?
It's possible that your PA isn't aware of the change, but you might ask because he would want to know.

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