Improve bone density and strength without medication?

Posted by plav @plav, Dec 20, 2023

Any luck improving bone density and strength without medication? It seems the medications only mildly help ... and they only help some patients; some studies show the slight improvement in density does not mean quality bone was built. I'm not comfortable with moving forward with the treatments just because "that's what we give patients with osteoporosis". There seems to be no room for education or discussion, or research into actual results or other options.

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Osteoporosis & Bone Health Support Group.

I just went to a PA who spends all of his time with osteoporosis patients. He reviewed my dexa scans, diet, supplements and spent over an hour with me talking about my 10 year risk factor and how to get my risk lowered. He was very informative and confident in his beliefs. He even did a letter grade scoring of most of the medications offered for bone building. He also gave me the information handouts from the Royal Osteoporosis Society from Great Britain. What I'm reading is Evenity gets an A++ for bone building quickly, but is usually for those who have already had a fracture. And I see lots of possible side effects. Any opinions? I am a healthy, active 70 year old woman with a -2.8 T-score.

REPLY

Another question.... he told me that you can never stop Prolia if you choose this drug. Any comments?

REPLY

Check out you tube OsteoBoston

Have seen plenty of references to studies here. May I ask your age?

REPLY

Thank you to each person who has commented on my initial post; I finally feel not so alone in this and I'm checking into each suggestion and thought. Has anyone had experience with the Onero Osteoporosis Strength Training program?

REPLY
@gently

plav,
evenity is probably a sound recommendation. Evenity is a newer anabolic with a black box for cardiac risks. It will be a few years before it becomes clear whether stroke and/or MI are statistical risks. I would avoid the drug until more results are in.
My first drug of choice is Forteo. It gives you fairly rapid protection from vertebral fractures. The second drug choice would be Tymlos.
Forteo, Tymlos and Evenity have to be followed by Reclast (zolendronate) or another bisphosphonate to secure the gains you have with the first drug. Forteo and Tymlos (teriparatide) are usually given for two years. Evenity for one.
I don't think you can regain very much loss with dietary , supplement or exercise changes.
It is good to look at all the pharmaceuticals (there aren't many) because if you have adverse reactions, you want to be ready to change drugs.
If I were only 58 (and female?) I'd consider the low dose estrodial patch.
Physical therapy can be very helpful, just be certain that your PT understands vertebral fragility.
You don't mention calcium, which is maybe part of a good diet. I think recommended calcium amts are too high and contribute to athersclerosis. The medical community remains devided on that issue.
Did you have sacroplasty. Were you tested for secondary causes and were your D levels tested.
D3 and K2 work better together. But they attach to the same receptors for absorption so it is better to take them separately.
Even the endocrinologists who are talkative generally have a set way they want to prescribe. It's best to do your own research and decide for yourself. Then you have to find a willing md. They have the clinical trials and a smaller subset of their own patients. The best part of this site is the wealth of personal experience.
You'll get responses that vary from mine, I hope. And your own decision will be according to what you know about yourself. It really is so interesting. Keep asking anything and everything. Best wishes and congratulations on your semi-retirement.

Jump to this post

Could you please explain why you prefer forteo over Tymlos?

REPLY
@sallyj2

Could you please explain why you prefer forteo over Tymlos?

Jump to this post

@sallyj2 I defer to @gently and their response for them. Just want to say that Forteo and Tymlos are similar in they way they work (through the parathyroid). I found a graph that gave a slight edge to Tymlos but very slight.

Everyone reacts differently to meds. I could not tolerate Forteo even at a reduced dose. I could tolerate Tymlos, so that is what I took. Your reaction to Forteo may be more similar to that of @gently .

Bottom line, unlike other decisions, I don't think there is much of a consequence of choosing one over the other. Evenity on the other hand, works differently, by reducing sclerostin.

REPLY

sallyj2
The Forteo dose is 1/4th the Tymlos dose. I harbor a suspicion that we are all over prescribed. Never more so than with drugs that aren't titrated for weight.

My general sense from reading patient reports is that the side effects from Tymlos are greater. (Though I feel offshore breezes with that thought.) Tymlos contains a preservative that some are allergic to.

Forteo increased bone density over the first six months in the Miller 2016 study. Tymlos lagged but may surpass Forteo in the longer term with fracture prevention rated at 84% compared to Forteo 80%. I was in a bit of a hurry, having considered the situation so long.

Tymlos has the advantage with the hips; my fear is thoracic fracture.

Tymlos also has excites less resporptive action and reduces the incidence of hypercalcemia.

If you decide on Tymlos be sure to read windyshores' genius--posts about manipulating the pen.

REPLY
@teb

Plav, I was diagnosed with osteoporosis at around the same age. My T-score was -2.8. I was determined not to take any drug since I've always lead a natural lifestyle and thought that if I just worked a little harder, I could regain what was lost. I decided to give it a full two years to see results. My endocrinologist was not happy about this but I was adamant and so she accepted my plan. I increased my already active exercise regimen to daily hiking, dancing or pilates, strength training 3x a week, I stood all day at my computer instead of sitting, did 400 core reps a day and calculated my nutrition using food first to get all my nutrients, supplementing anything that was short. I took control and did everything I possibly could do. In two years, I went from -2.8 to -3.2. Gaining bone in menopause is rarely physiologically possible but my stubborn nature and my interest in natural healing refused to accept that initially. After my valiant attempt and epic fail, I knew I had to accept that a pharmaceutical was necessary. My doctor insisted on Fosomax but I didn't think that was my best option. I fought for Forteo as all of my loss was in my spine and that is where it builds bone. I had no side effects (and the mental relief it provided was immeasurable). The first year I went from -3.2 to -2.8. The second year, I went from -2.8 to -2.9 so my recommendation is that if you decide to go on Forteo, test your bone markers throughout your course as gains slow the second year and in my case, slightly reversed. After my two years of Forteo, I had to make the next drug decision to maintain the gains. After weighing all options, I decided to go on HRT. At that time, it was not considered an acceptable choice but I was still within the 10 years of menopause and felt like it was the most natural choice I could make. I've now been on HRT for 5 years and I have pretty much maintained. Since you are 58, this might be a reasonable course of action for you, a bone builder first followed by HRT. It's really hard to accept the fact that medication is needed but it seems your osteoporosis is pretty serious as your scores are quite low and you've already had a fracture. I only wish I had gone on Forteo and HRT sooner. Losing bone in menopause is easy, gaining it back is so much harder and really, only accomplished through medication. Had I gone on medication rather than waiting two years, my gains would have put me out of osteoporosis completely. Now that is not possible and I really regret that decision. Wishing you the best of luck in your journey.

Jump to this post

Hi Teb, you and I have had the conversation about HRT before, and I found your comment about starting within 10 years of menopause interesting. I am turning 65 very soon and 17 years out of menopause. My doctor refuses to prescribe it to me, but I found a doctor who would. When I went to fill the prescription this week, the pharmacist said take a pause until after the new year and do more research!! My prescription is for Climara 25 (0.025 mg/24hr patch weekly) and Prometrium (100 mg capsule) daily for 25 days per month. I’m Canadian so I’m not sure the drugs are the same in the US?

I’m in a holding pattern as I can’t get in to see an endocrinologist until May 2024 so I thought this might stabilize me until I can start on a bone building drug. I’d love to hear people’s comments about someone my age and years out of menopause starting on a low dose estrogen patch!!!

REPLY
@gently

plav,
evenity is probably a sound recommendation. Evenity is a newer anabolic with a black box for cardiac risks. It will be a few years before it becomes clear whether stroke and/or MI are statistical risks. I would avoid the drug until more results are in.
My first drug of choice is Forteo. It gives you fairly rapid protection from vertebral fractures. The second drug choice would be Tymlos.
Forteo, Tymlos and Evenity have to be followed by Reclast (zolendronate) or another bisphosphonate to secure the gains you have with the first drug. Forteo and Tymlos (teriparatide) are usually given for two years. Evenity for one.
I don't think you can regain very much loss with dietary , supplement or exercise changes.
It is good to look at all the pharmaceuticals (there aren't many) because if you have adverse reactions, you want to be ready to change drugs.
If I were only 58 (and female?) I'd consider the low dose estrodial patch.
Physical therapy can be very helpful, just be certain that your PT understands vertebral fragility.
You don't mention calcium, which is maybe part of a good diet. I think recommended calcium amts are too high and contribute to athersclerosis. The medical community remains devided on that issue.
Did you have sacroplasty. Were you tested for secondary causes and were your D levels tested.
D3 and K2 work better together. But they attach to the same receptors for absorption so it is better to take them separately.
Even the endocrinologists who are talkative generally have a set way they want to prescribe. It's best to do your own research and decide for yourself. Then you have to find a willing md. They have the clinical trials and a smaller subset of their own patients. The best part of this site is the wealth of personal experience.
You'll get responses that vary from mine, I hope. And your own decision will be according to what you know about yourself. It really is so interesting. Keep asking anything and everything. Best wishes and congratulations on your semi-retirement.

Jump to this post

Gently, can you provide a reference for Vitamin D and K2 competing for a receptor site? I have never heard this nor have I been able to construct a search that returns any information indicating such an interaction.

REPLY
@gently

sallyj2
The Forteo dose is 1/4th the Tymlos dose. I harbor a suspicion that we are all over prescribed. Never more so than with drugs that aren't titrated for weight.

My general sense from reading patient reports is that the side effects from Tymlos are greater. (Though I feel offshore breezes with that thought.) Tymlos contains a preservative that some are allergic to.

Forteo increased bone density over the first six months in the Miller 2016 study. Tymlos lagged but may surpass Forteo in the longer term with fracture prevention rated at 84% compared to Forteo 80%. I was in a bit of a hurry, having considered the situation so long.

Tymlos has the advantage with the hips; my fear is thoracic fracture.

Tymlos also has excites less resporptive action and reduces the incidence of hypercalcemia.

If you decide on Tymlos be sure to read windyshores' genius--posts about manipulating the pen.

Jump to this post

I was looking at Tymlos because I could adjust the dose. I’m super sensitive to meds. My hip density is worse than spine. I think we’re all overprescribed too. I’m also in a hurry given L2 fracture. I didn’t realize Tymlos was stronger! The doctor said I could use either. Thanks everyone!

REPLY
Please sign in or register to post a reply.