Alternatives to KR?

Posted by zacklucy @zacklucy, Dec 7, 2023

Is anyone tuned into the feasibility of artificial knee cartilage and/or meniscus? Orthopedic surgeons predictably say it’s years or decades off, but they are in the business of selling replacements. Entities such as Sparta (https://www.spartabiomedical.com/) are working on this and I’d delay my KR for a time if a better technology was on the horizon.

Any thoughts? Thanks!

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Duke university is now in clinical trials with a new product which looks extremely promising. Unfortunately, my understanding is it cannot be used if your knee is already “bone on bone”. My Orthopedist’s comment was my knee was “too far gone” for this treatment, which appears to be very effective. However, it may work well for many people. The question is when & if it will receive FDA approval, etc.

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To zacklucy: PS I just watched the link you sent & noted this is apparently the same product currently in clinical trials at Duke.

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Thank you, alexalee. I’m a layman but it seems to me that a simple device such as the one Sparta is working on shouldn’t be a more difficult engineering feat than going to the moon. Artificial knees are an amazing technological development, and millions are thankful for them, but they seem to me to be a “brute force” solution in an era of increasingly sophisticated medical technology.

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Eight weeks ago I had a new procedure it is called MFAT. They liposuction fat cells and then inject that into the affected joint. I was born on bone and my orthopedic doctor recommended a replacement. I had tried previously PRP injections, which helped my right knee, which was not as far gone, but did not help my left. This procedure has no long-term results so that is the downside. It is also most effective in thin and in well in shape people. I am very encouraged. I started rehabbing immediately and started playing pickle ball at four weeks. We will see where I am a year from now. The other downside is it out-of-pocket and it was $3500 for one knee

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@bmilanowski53

Eight weeks ago I had a new procedure it is called MFAT. They liposuction fat cells and then inject that into the affected joint. I was born on bone and my orthopedic doctor recommended a replacement. I had tried previously PRP injections, which helped my right knee, which was not as far gone, but did not help my left. This procedure has no long-term results so that is the downside. It is also most effective in thin and in well in shape people. I am very encouraged. I started rehabbing immediately and started playing pickle ball at four weeks. We will see where I am a year from now. The other downside is it out-of-pocket and it was $3500 for one knee

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bmilanowski53-

Fascinating. Thank you. Had never heard. A little dated, but NIH weighs in favorably here: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34211557/

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For now, I am trying to stave off TKR with PT and Acupuncture. I, too, want to "wait" for something less costly and somewhat problematic than taking out parts of my knees...yes both...and putting in non-natural parts. I know many have had great success but I am still not convinced it is right for me. I need cartilage not plastic and metal! Peace...

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@bmilanowski53

Eight weeks ago I had a new procedure it is called MFAT. They liposuction fat cells and then inject that into the affected joint. I was born on bone and my orthopedic doctor recommended a replacement. I had tried previously PRP injections, which helped my right knee, which was not as far gone, but did not help my left. This procedure has no long-term results so that is the downside. It is also most effective in thin and in well in shape people. I am very encouraged. I started rehabbing immediately and started playing pickle ball at four weeks. We will see where I am a year from now. The other downside is it out-of-pocket and it was $3500 for one knee

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bmilanowski53, I located a doc in Reston, Virginia who does this. You got me curious, the NIH piece I attached clinched it.

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Good luck like I said, so far so good I did start rehabbing right away after the injection. I’m assuming that helped we’ll see a year out

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Scientists haven't yet found a replacement for good ol cartilage. In the knee, this is the medial and lateral menisci, and covering the ends of the femur and tibia, articular cartilage. Stem cells may someday provide a solution to growing cartilage in a lab, but that's in the future.

In the meantime, joint replacement is a wonderful, life changing procedure. To work, it requires a skilled surgeon and a motivated patient. Like a lot of things, there are no shortcuts.

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@zacklucy

Thank you, alexalee. I’m a layman but it seems to me that a simple device such as the one Sparta is working on shouldn’t be a more difficult engineering feat than going to the moon. Artificial knees are an amazing technological development, and millions are thankful for them, but they seem to me to be a “brute force” solution in an era of increasingly sophisticated medical technology.

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As one orthopedist told me, “nothing will ever be as good as your own knee” & I found that to be true, having recently had a TKR. Unfortunately, knees wear out, but I do believe that somewhere in the (perhaps distant) future, people will look back on TKRs as a barbaric approach.

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