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Fitness tracker sleep data - extremely low deep sleep.

Posted by rjjacobsen @rjjacobsen, Nov 19, 2023

Broke my old fitness tracker several months ago and finally replaced - new one is more specific. It shows deep sleep between 0 and 8%, light sleep between 60 and 90% and REM between 12% and 36% of the sleep time.

Per the Sleep Foundation a person will typically go through four to six sleep cycles per night. In each cycle, stage 1 (light sleep) is 1 to 7 min, stage 2 (also light sleep) is 10-25 min, stage 3 (deep sleep) is 20-40 min, REM stage is 10-60 min.

Two things of note:
1) I don't seem to have a pattern of cycles at all.
2) I rarely get into the deep sleep stage and when I do, it's far short of that 20-40 minutes.

This is consistent with my feeling severely exhausted even when I wake up and not physically or mentally recovered/refreshed.

I have a CPAP (mild apnea) and it's numbers are reasonable, the AHIs are a bit high (6 to 8, rather than 5 or under), but they bounce a lot.

I'm scheduling my annual exam with my sleep med doctor - it's been 8-9(?) years since my last sleep study, so I will ask if a another is advised. I will also ask about the sleep tracking and cycle business.

I know these fitness trackers aren't medical-grade devices and are subject to error, but this appears way off.

Interested if anyone has seen symptoms similar to this, what diagnostics did their doctors do and what was done for treatment.

Thanks in advance.

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Mentor
John, Volunteer Mentor | @johnbishop | Nov 19, 2023

Hi @rjjacobsen, I have similar symptoms but it's usually when my AHI number is above 4 which is my CPAP target number from my sleep medicine doctor. I have obstructive sleep apnea. Earlier this year I dumped my iWatch for a Fitbit Versa 4 (free from NIH All of Us Organization for sharing the health data). The sleep data is interesting but it doesn't give me the full details every night. I think it's mostly because it can't read my heart rate consistent sometimes if I forget to clean the back or move it higher on my arm to make it tighter. The last good reading I had was Friday night and I was awake 12% (1hr 6m), REM 18% (1hr 39m), Light 57% (5h 9m), Deep 13% (1h 9m) and my AHI was 3.1. Contrast that with Friday night Nov 3rd - AHI 8.3 well over my target of 4 and my Fitbit showed Awake 15% (1h 20m), REM no % shown - 1h 6m, Light 71% (6h 6m), Deep no % shown - 4m.

I'm wondering if the AHI is the key to feeling refreshed. Might be a good question to ask your sleep medicine doc. It's been about 4+ years since I had my sleep test and I don't remember seeing all of the detailed numbers from the sleep test.

REPLY
1 reply
jfching | @jfching | Nov 19, 2023

Hello both, I am using a Samsung Galaxy watch to track my sleep. I read in forums that these are not that accurate. I only use them to see trends though there should be a grain of salt on the results. I replied to this post to see if you are tracking blood oxygen. Mine dips below 90% usually 85% for a total of 3 minutes. (the longest was 8 minutes). However, I am fully awake and do not feel tired upon waking up. Hope you make good progress in sleep. I think I need to have a sleep study soon!

REPLY
2 replies
rjjacobsen | @rjjacobsen | Nov 19, 2023
In reply to @johnbishop "Hi @rjjacobsen, I have similar symptoms but it's usually when my AHI number is above 4..." + (show)
@johnbishop

Hi @rjjacobsen, I have similar symptoms but it's usually when my AHI number is above 4 which is my CPAP target number from my sleep medicine doctor. I have obstructive sleep apnea. Earlier this year I dumped my iWatch for a Fitbit Versa 4 (free from NIH All of Us Organization for sharing the health data). The sleep data is interesting but it doesn't give me the full details every night. I think it's mostly because it can't read my heart rate consistent sometimes if I forget to clean the back or move it higher on my arm to make it tighter. The last good reading I had was Friday night and I was awake 12% (1hr 6m), REM 18% (1hr 39m), Light 57% (5h 9m), Deep 13% (1h 9m) and my AHI was 3.1. Contrast that with Friday night Nov 3rd - AHI 8.3 well over my target of 4 and my Fitbit showed Awake 15% (1h 20m), REM no % shown - 1h 6m, Light 71% (6h 6m), Deep no % shown - 4m.

I'm wondering if the AHI is the key to feeling refreshed. Might be a good question to ask your sleep medicine doc. It's been about 4+ years since I had my sleep test and I don't remember seeing all of the detailed numbers from the sleep test.

Jump to this post

John -

Thanks for your reply.

Over the last 18 days, I averaged 6 AHIs. Highest was 8.1, lowest 2.6.

I have two other contributing factors - one is pain in shoulders, hips and back requiring movement to get comfortable, the other is nocturnal toilet trips this is 2-3 times overnight.

I take 7.5mg Remeron 90-105 minutes before bedtime - this helps me get back to sleep quickly after waking up. I also take 3mg melatonin 45-60 minutes before bedtime - both per sleep guy. Take Tylenol ER for the pain... NSAIDS work better, but they chew up the GI tract so I can't take them.

My fitness tracker is a VivoSmart4. It seems consistent, but it remains to be seen if it's consistently inaccurate.

I've rechecked my sleep hygiene and last night turned off an electric space heater - I wanted to know if the noise it generates causes disruption. Too early to tell.

Checking the normal sleep hygiene things as well.

Will ask about a sleep study or maybe a recalibration study.

Thanks!

REPLY
rjjacobsen | @rjjacobsen | Nov 19, 2023
In reply to @jfching "Hello both, I am using a Samsung Galaxy watch to track my sleep. I read in..." + (show)
@jfching

Hello both, I am using a Samsung Galaxy watch to track my sleep. I read in forums that these are not that accurate. I only use them to see trends though there should be a grain of salt on the results. I replied to this post to see if you are tracking blood oxygen. Mine dips below 90% usually 85% for a total of 3 minutes. (the longest was 8 minutes). However, I am fully awake and do not feel tired upon waking up. Hope you make good progress in sleep. I think I need to have a sleep study soon!

Jump to this post

Yes, am tracking the O2 saturation, but only for 4 hours overnight. So far, mine have been consistently average of 92-93% and lows of 85-87%.

The Sleep Foundation states this regarding levels during sleep: "People should contact a health care provider if their blood oxygen levels drop below 93%, and they should seek prompt medical care if levels are below 88%."

Same article says: "However, blood oxygen levels at or below 88%
for five or more minutes during sleep may be a sign of a sleep-related breathing disorder.

Thanks for your wishes about good progress. Same to you.

REPLY
Mentor
John, Volunteer Mentor | @johnbishop | Nov 20, 2023
In reply to @jfching "Hello both, I am using a Samsung Galaxy watch to track my sleep. I read in..." + (show)
@jfching

Hello both, I am using a Samsung Galaxy watch to track my sleep. I read in forums that these are not that accurate. I only use them to see trends though there should be a grain of salt on the results. I replied to this post to see if you are tracking blood oxygen. Mine dips below 90% usually 85% for a total of 3 minutes. (the longest was 8 minutes). However, I am fully awake and do not feel tired upon waking up. Hope you make good progress in sleep. I think I need to have a sleep study soon!

Jump to this post

My Fitbit Versa 4 tracks oxygen saturation when it works. I have to make sure it's secure on my wrist so have to slide it a little higher on my arm and even then it only works half of the time. Not sure if my movement during the night is the issue or some other problem.

Happy Zzzzz's and Thanksgiving!
REPLY
SusanEllen66 | @SusanEllen66 | Nov 20, 2023

@rjjacobsen I did a sleep study and was told that I have idiopathic hypersomnia. My brain doesn’t allow me to get enough deep sleep.
The condition is also known as Narcolepsy 2. It may be something you can check out.
I’m tired all the…

REPLY
1 reply
rjjacobsen | @rjjacobsen | Nov 20, 2023
In reply to @SusanEllen66 "@rjjacobsen I did a sleep study and was told that I have idiopathic hypersomnia. My brain..." + (show)
@SusanEllen66

@rjjacobsen I did a sleep study and was told that I have idiopathic hypersomnia. My brain doesn’t allow me to get enough deep sleep.
The condition is also known as Narcolepsy 2. It may be something you can check out.
I’m tired all the…

Jump to this post

Checking that out. Thanks!

REPLY
cherawgirl | @cherawgirl | Nov 21, 2023

I have similar numbers to you on stage percentages. I am concerned with too little deep sleep. My average is 6%, with light 78%, REM 13%. I questioned the accuracy of my Apple Watch but then I was turned on to this video on You tube. Search for The Qualified Scientist and the video “Apple Watch : Scientific Sleep Test”. His research yields watch accuracy ~80%.

I take Lunesta for sleep which unlike Ambien allows REM. It works just ok and doesn’t keep me asleep all night. Still struggling with getting enough sleep since I was a child.

REPLY
1 reply
rjjacobsen | @rjjacobsen | Nov 21, 2023
In reply to @cherawgirl "I have similar numbers to you on stage percentages. I am concerned with too little deep..." + (show)
@cherawgirl

I have similar numbers to you on stage percentages. I am concerned with too little deep sleep. My average is 6%, with light 78%, REM 13%. I questioned the accuracy of my Apple Watch but then I was turned on to this video on You tube. Search for The Qualified Scientist and the video “Apple Watch : Scientific Sleep Test”. His research yields watch accuracy ~80%.

I take Lunesta for sleep which unlike Ambien allows REM. It works just ok and doesn’t keep me asleep all night. Still struggling with getting enough sleep since I was a child.

Jump to this post

Thanks!

REPLY
rjjacobsen | @rjjacobsen | Nov 21, 2023

An update: Scheduled an appointment with sleep medicine and the soonest I could get was late February. Sent a message to the doctor and suggested I bring in the memory card to be offloaded and analyzed and they were receptive to that.

Deep sleep has improved a bit since I turned off my bedroom's electric space heater thinking the fan noise it makes may disrupt sleep.

REPLY
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