Neuropathy: Numbness only, no pain

Posted by John, Volunteer Mentor @johnbishop, Sep 10, 2020

When I was first diagnosed with idiopathic small fiber peripheral neuropathy and numbness was my only symptom, my neurologist told me that I am one of the "lucky" few who didn't also have pain and other associated symptoms of neuropathy. I knew there were others out there but yesterday I met my first member on Connect who has a similar diagnosis. I want to thank that member for joining Mayo Clinic Connect and sending me a private message that I would like to answer here to start this discussion.

Hello @afirefly, Welcome to Connect. You mentioned being diagnosed with large fiber demyelinating predominately sensory peripheral neuropathy at Mayo Clinic. The neurologist's recommendation was exercise and balance exercises. Your symptoms are less than one year and are primarily progressive loss of sensation in your hands and feet. You also said aside from occasional muscle cramps in your calves and dyesthesias in hands and feet, you experience little discomfort. Your greatest concern now is the degree of disability you will have as the numbness progresses.

I can tell you that we think a lot alike. When I walked out of the neurologists office with similar symptoms of just numbness in the feet and lower legs with no pain – and no recommendations for treatment, I was pretty down. I was told to let them know as the condition progressed and my biggest fear at the time was not being able to drive myself. That's when I started doing my own research and found Mayo Clinic Connect after being diagnosed with idiopathic small fiber PN.

You have some really good and thoughtful questions which I will try to answer the best I can.

Question: Although you have improved on the Protocol, did you ever have complete loss of sensation in your feet? I ask because I truly dread the possibility of total sensory loss in my feet.

Answer: I never had a complete loss of sensation in my feet. At the worst, they felt numb and sometimes tingly but not painful, just uncomfortable. They mostly always feel cold and after being diagnosed with lymphedema I have to wear compression socks which doesn't help the numbness feeling. I have noticed that it seems like I've had some feeling returning ever so often when I'm exercising on my crossfit exercise bike. I use it several times a day for 30 to 45 minutes when I can to build up leg and arm strength. I recently purchased a device called a Sand Dune Stepper to work on my balance issues. I do think it helps and I've noticed a little more feeling in the bottom of my feet – if that makes sense for numb feet. Website – https://www.sanddunestepper.com/
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Question: Assuming you have little or no sensation in your toes and the soles of your feet, are you still able to drive a car?
If yes, would you kindly tell me what maneuvers/measures you have used over the years to compensate for the absence of feeling in your feet while driving?

Answer: I am still able to drive a car. The numbness was always a concern in my mind but never kept me from feeling the pressure of placing my feet on the pedals and pushing them down or letting them up.
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Question: Assuming you have little or no sensation in your toes and the soles of your feet, how difficult is it for you to walk? Before my neuropathy, if my foot was in a position too long it would "go to sleep" from lack of circulation to the nerves. The sensation would return seconds later once I changed my foot position. However, I don't believe I would have been able to walk on that sleeping foot until the circulation had been restored. Please tell me if there are/were any maneuvers/measures you have used over the years to compensate for the absence of feeling in your feet while walking.

Answer: When I was in my late 40s, my wife would sometimes tell me that I walk like an old man and now I am one and still walking the same. I've always been slow getting up and slow to take the first steps when walking. I guess I would call it trying to be careful because I wasn't sure of my footing. I think recognizing that your feet may not be as steady is a good thing and keeps you alert when walking. I struggle with walking any distance due to lower back issues. I recently had some physical therapy to learn some back and stomach muscle strengthing exercises which has helped some. Now I just have to execute a plan to do them often.
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Question: You indicated that the cost of the old Protocol was under $10/day (prior to 525 Protocol) several years ago and that the current 525 Protocol is $6.44/day. Does that mean Protocol 525 these days costs somewhat less than the old (original) Protocol?

Answer: Each item in the original protocol lasted a different number of days so the cost was more spread out and roughly calculated at under $10/day. The new 525 Protocol is a 30 day supply for $6.44/day ($193.20). It's also fewer pills to swallow which I really like. The Ramp up version is different due to the R-ALA in the regular 30 day supply. The daily R-ALA dosage is 1200 mg which causes some people to have stomach problems so the ramp up is to gradually increase the dosage to get use to the higher amount. I never had an issue because I was already taking supplements for the PN from my research and was taking that amount of ALA before I found the original protocol. Related discussion — Have you tried the new Protocol 525 product for neuropathy relief?: https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/have-you-tried-the-new-protocol-525-product-for-neuropathy-relief/
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Question: Do you use orthotics or inserts in your shoes? Special shoes?

Answer: I've tried some orthotics and different inserts but don't always use them. I found some felt/wool inserts that I like during the winter time as an extra cushion. I do like Sketchers because of the memory foam cushion and comfort. I used to wear the canvas shell ones but my neurologist told me it would be best to wear shoes with good side support for walking. So, I try to choose slip-ons with good side support made out of leather. There is another discussion on Connect you might find helpful for shoes – If the shoe fits…right?: https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/if-the-shoe-fits-right/
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Question: Besides daily foot exams, lotion to your feet, and avoiding barefoot walking, are there any other measures you use to protect your numb feet?

Answer: For me, this all started with a trip to the ER after waking up one night to go to the bathroom and when reaching the bathroom seeing blood all over the floor and trying to figure out where it's coming from. Surprised was I to see it pumping in a small stream from my ankle. Long story short, I unconciously rubbed my feet during the night and I had a hang nail on my big toe which tore the skin and part of a vein close to the surface. After that episode, I always wear white short loose socks to bed and I apply lotion to my feet and legs to keep them moisturized. I think that also helps with the healing process when you think that there are tiny sensory nerves just under the skin and it helps to keep the skin moist to protect them.

Hope this helps…let me know if I missed anything or if you have any other questions. We have a great group of members with a lot of experience here on Connect.

John

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Neuropathy Support Group.

@dlydailyhope

When I started to get burning, pins and needles, and numbness in my feet in 2017 tied to small fiber neuropathy, I researched treatments and came across the suggestion to take Alpha Lipoic Acid and Acetyl L Carnitine supplements daily. This has helped me quite a bit even prior to taking Cymbalta. I am starting to get more numbness in my feet when I walk but believe this is now tied to my lumbar spinal stenosis.

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Interesting! I wonder if they'd help me. My neuropathy isn't tied to small fibers or anything except delaying a surgery for a ruptured disk that damaged my nerve roots - at least nothing else has shown up on testing (EMG's). So, I wonder if it will help me, since it's apparently from mechanical causes and so far, hasn't been tied to any other cause?

I wonder though, is it really helping since it's still spreading?

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@debmoby

Interesting! I wonder if they'd help me. My neuropathy isn't tied to small fibers or anything except delaying a surgery for a ruptured disk that damaged my nerve roots - at least nothing else has shown up on testing (EMG's). So, I wonder if it will help me, since it's apparently from mechanical causes and so far, hasn't been tied to any other cause?

I wonder though, is it really helping since it's still spreading?

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Contact them and ask.

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@kingfish1952

I had tried something similar which did not help. the numbness I can deal with much more so than the pain.. Where did you have the Scrambler therapy done and how many sessions did it take?

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Radiant Pain Relief Centers Portland and Chicago. 18 sessions. Good Luck

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@debmoby

Interesting! I wonder if they'd help me. My neuropathy isn't tied to small fibers or anything except delaying a surgery for a ruptured disk that damaged my nerve roots - at least nothing else has shown up on testing (EMG's). So, I wonder if it will help me, since it's apparently from mechanical causes and so far, hasn't been tied to any other cause?

I wonder though, is it really helping since it's still spreading?

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Good afternoon @debmoby. Welcome to our sharing forum. I wonder if you have been asked to participate in a punch skin biopsy on either of your ankles? You say that your neuropathy isn't tied to small fibers. Mine is from previous trauma that included spine surgery. SFN (small fiber neuropathy) is sort of a different kind of situation. I also depend on Cymbalta to control the anxiety that seems to ride along with the neuro.

May you be free of suffering and the causes of suffering.
Chris

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@artscaping

Good afternoon @debmoby. Welcome to our sharing forum. I wonder if you have been asked to participate in a punch skin biopsy on either of your ankles? You say that your neuropathy isn't tied to small fibers. Mine is from previous trauma that included spine surgery. SFN (small fiber neuropathy) is sort of a different kind of situation. I also depend on Cymbalta to control the anxiety that seems to ride along with the neuro.

May you be free of suffering and the causes of suffering.
Chris

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Well, many, many years they did a muscle biopsy on the back of my calf, but there was nothing at that time. I couldn't even tell you anymore what they were looking for, but it was negative. Some type of muscle disease, I think.
Honestly, I've wondered why I've not had one! I think I should. I think when I finish traveling this winter, I'll ask my doctor for one. (We move from one house to another to avoid the cold and to play with our friends in 70 degrees weather, which is much easier for me - and my Hubs loves to go, so nice break for my care giver, too!)
Thank you for this idea! I'm always up to find a firm answer, as I just keep getting diagnosis's that I feel aren't entirely 100% accurate...although they might be part of the picture.
Chris - I love your thought at the end! It's such a nice thing to read - and made me smile.
May you also be free of suffering!
Debbie

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@dlydailyhope

When I started to get burning, pins and needles, and numbness in my feet in 2017 tied to small fiber neuropathy, I researched treatments and came across the suggestion to take Alpha Lipoic Acid and Acetyl L Carnitine supplements daily. This has helped me quite a bit even prior to taking Cymbalta. I am starting to get more numbness in my feet when I walk but believe this is now tied to my lumbar spinal stenosis.

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I take the same supplements and I have zero pain. I do have numbness and tingling in my feet, and I still walk like I drank a bottle of alcohol. But zero pain.

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I have numbness in my ankles and left calf and left top of foot. Yes, I had two back surgeries, three years apart. NS said that the numbness should go away as I had spinal stenosis and nerve was squeezed in the canal. Well, it's getting worse and the surgery was on Jan. 30th.

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@rca I' ve had about 3 MRI's since 2014 and after each one, docs agree I have spinal stenosis in the L-4 to S-1 area but 2 top neurosurgeons in my area refuse to do lower back surgery. Insist it will not help. Each case js different. With surgery out I exercise the best I can and CBD cream helps out with lower back pain.

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rca (@rca)m Ed (@njed)– I also have had umpteen MRIs, each revealing cervical stenosis. I met with a neurosurgeon 18 months ago and he said he could do surgery, but since I had no symptoms that involved my neck or cervical area, surgery wasn't urgent; also, there was a good chance that cervical surgery would have no impact on my lower body PN (poor balance & gait); we'd do a wait-and-see, instead. I checked in with him again only yesterday and he advised – since I've still no cervical symptoms – we continue with the wait-and-see. Locally, he's regarded as a top-notch surgeon, yet his mantra is "The best surgery is no surgery." –Ray (@ray666)

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@ray666

rca (@rca)m Ed (@njed)– I also have had umpteen MRIs, each revealing cervical stenosis. I met with a neurosurgeon 18 months ago and he said he could do surgery, but since I had no symptoms that involved my neck or cervical area, surgery wasn't urgent; also, there was a good chance that cervical surgery would have no impact on my lower body PN (poor balance & gait); we'd do a wait-and-see, instead. I checked in with him again only yesterday and he advised – since I've still no cervical symptoms – we continue with the wait-and-see. Locally, he's regarded as a top-notch surgeon, yet his mantra is "The best surgery is no surgery." –Ray (@ray666)

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I regret saying anything to this group. Each person is different. I am glad I had the surgeries and I was then pain free.
The numbness was there before the surgeries and it depends how long the nerve has been squeezed. I no longer want to be on this group, it creates much stress and don't share anything with me again. Each one of us has control with do what we went given all the issues and consults with NS. Th

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