1. < Just Want to Talk

Relationships: How do you form and maintain them when ill?

Posted by buzz23 @buzz23, Sep 7, 2023

How does a sick person form, and maintain, healthy and sustainable relationships with others, platonic and non-platonic?
The human existence baffles me. I enjoy observing and studying it. It brings up a lot of questions.
Being introverted, and having been raised by a parent that had a pathological level of introversion, I have settled into a “fly on the wall” kind of existence. This frees you up to pay attention to what and who is around you. It makes me ask so many questions, most of them being “why” or “how” questions.
I understand that we are social beings, we are built that way. I also understand that our social interactions can have negative or positive effects or both.
I have seen compassion fatigue, I have seen burnout, and I have seen resentment come from a place where love and care formerly was.
So how does a sick person form and sustain healthy relationships? Healthy for both parties. Where do we draw the line between accepting care and love from someone dear to your, and taking or asking too much from a person?
I am drained and exhausted by all this, and I have had a lifetime of experience with this, what will it do to a person new to it? Will it not crush the person? How do I know that 2 or 5 years from now, this person won’t look at me and think that I robbed them of their youth? Is it fair to ask any of this of a person? The hospital visits, the in-hospital stays, the up and down over medication, insurance etc, the pain, the insomnia, the cancelled dates and activities, the not being able to get out of bed, the needing help with cleaning and cooking and errands. It seems more like a “you love me, and now you must pay for my care” situation, with the payment being in many forms (financial, time, energy, etc). How do you do that? Offload ‘too much’ on a person in the name of love? How do you exist in a dynamic in which you are the sun and therefore life must revolve around you? How do you take care of the other person? What can you offer or give in place of all that you are taking and all that you cannot do? Aren’t relationships supposed to be two-way streets?

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olderdiva12345 | @olderdiva12345 | Sep 9, 2023
In reply to @buzz23 "Maybe part of the problem is that we are, at times, in love with people who..." + (show)
@buzz23

Maybe part of the problem is that we are, at times, in love with people who are not in love with us. They may like us, or even "love" us for a time, but it is fleeting. I have found myself in that place before, where I give everything I possibly could, but the person turns out to not bring that to the table too.
The goal is to be in love with someone who is in love with you.
I always say, love is immortality. I lost the love of my life 6 years ago, I am still in love. Right now, I am not looking for another great love, just one that will be good for both parties.

Jump to this post

Hi, again. I, too, am still in love with my deceased husband after 20+ years.
What you are looking for is more than doable. Friendship, honesty, and trust is paramount along with kindness to one another. Good luck with finding someone who will reciprocate your feelings. Have you tried a dateing service? This is where I found my current husband who is my best friend and a true Gentleman and genuinely loves me thank goodness.

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olderdiva12345 | @olderdiva12345 | Sep 9, 2023
In reply to @olderdiva12345 "Good Afternoon, buzz23. I sincerely hope you are able to one day travel the world or..." + (show)
@olderdiva12345

Good Afternoon, buzz23. I sincerely hope you are able to one day travel the world or at least part of it. My deceased French husband and I traveled much of Europe and lived in the South of France for almost 5 years until his death...(long, long ago) in Le Val in the department of the Var about an hour inland from Toulon. We loved it there. I had to come back to the US for a variety of reasons and, of course, wish I had stayed just six more weeks to get my dual citizenship. Stupid on my part. That's yesterdays news. I have remarried and we are considering a move back to lakeside living in South Carolina from our current home in Florida...too many poeple, too many autos, too much crime, etc.. Time to move on. Hope you find your book. It is a hardback and beautifully illustrated. Judith

Jump to this post

Also I must add that if anyone you are "in love" with is not "in love" with you or at the very least loves you enough to show you respecect, etc. you should walk away and don't look back. Had my share of jelous dates, etc. . Again, all the best to you.

Judith

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1 reply
buzz23 | @buzz23 | Sep 9, 2023
In reply to @joybo99 "Great questions. They occupy my mind every day. I can count on one hand the number..." + (show)
@joybo99

Great questions.
They occupy my mind every day. I can count on one hand the number of people I might see in a week. Most likely one of them will be a doctor.
I am basically a very social person who has become a recluse. We all want relationships but have no energy or ability to maintain them. You have to be able to give of yourself in a real relationship, and I have so little to give!
Your questions resonate with me. But I'm sorry to have no answer.

Jump to this post

I don't know if there are conclusive answers to these questions. Sometimes, asking the question and pondering over it is enough.
Are you able to do some "light" socialising?
I am very introverted, and that makes things worse because on the days when I have a bit of energy to, for example, go out for a meal, I would rather get the food and eat it at home. This does not help matters.
I like the cup theory: we each have a finite amount of ourselves (time, energy, care, love) that we can pour out to other people. What do you do if there isn't anything for you to pour into another person's cup, or they pour 20 gallons out for you and you don't have as much as half a gallon?

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buzz23 | @buzz23 | Sep 9, 2023
In reply to @mir123 "Thanks so much for the response. I really share your concern, and don't have an easy..." + (show)
@mir123

Thanks so much for the response. I really share your concern, and don't have an easy answer. I fear that when I need more caretaking I'll lose my (granted elderly) relationship pizzazz. Currently the best I can come up with is that I need to trust that my spouse is a grown-up who will ask for what he needs, and get his own support. It is difficult for me--tell me if you have other ideas.

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Have you discussed what will happen when you need more caretaking with your spouse?
I love how the weight of everything isn't on you. You are right, a grownup should be able to identify and express their needs, and do something to have them met. The same way that you should say if you need help with something.
I don't know if I have other ideas.
I am young, so that is also an issue, to need caretaking so early in life is heavy. I am not married or in a relationship, and I live on my own. So my caretaking is by someone I am paying and a couple of friends. I currently have a lady who comes over twice a week, and a friend who sometimes cooks for me and helps with errands. But that is falling short. I am now looking into the idea of having someone like a health assistant or nurse, because some days I need help bathing and getting dressed etc. My mind is not liking any of it. Hence my asking how you are approaching the issue of needing caretaking.

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1 reply
buzz23 | @buzz23 | Sep 9, 2023
In reply to @gingerw "@buss23 Ah, I can so relate! All of my life I have been considered fiercely independent,..." + (show)
@gingerw

@buss23 Ah, I can so relate! All of my life I have been considered fiercely independent, by myself and by others. Now at the young age of 70, over the last many years, that independence has eroded slowly away to using mobility devices, and asking for assistance in some things. It has been a major blow to my self-esteem. There are those in my life who valued me for my independence, and are now confused/unwilling in the face of being a partner on any level if it entails a less-than-perfect co-partner. For my part, there is a realization that I need to be the best I can at any time, and ask for those people to come along with me. Those who can, will. Those who cannot/will not, will be left on the wayside.
Ginger

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Have you identified anything that helps with your self esteem in relation to this?
It is sad when people value you for one particular thing about you and not for who you are as a person, because they crumble or leave the second that one thing changes. Those are not your people.
Some days/periods are too difficult to be the best version of yourself. Sometimes, simply existing is all we can do, and that's okay.

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buzz23 | @buzz23 | Sep 9, 2023
In reply to @timt347 "I don't have much expertise in this area, but I do know how to find expertise...." + (show)
@timt347

I don't have much expertise in this area, but I do know how to find expertise. I can recommend two sources.

First, see "Living a Healthy Life with Chronic Conditions," from http://www.bullpup.com, 800-676-2855. It contains three chapters that I think would be relevant to your questions.

Second, for relationships specifically, see John Gottman. He has written several books about marriage and relationships, and he has also done many video interviews and presentations. Your public library system may have his books because they are fairly popular. If not, then maybe interlibrary loan would work. I really like public libraries because they are free.

Here is a link to one of numerous videos featuring John Gottman. Hopefully it will give you an indication of what his work is about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKTyPgwfPgg&t=62s

Although I don't have a lot of expertise in this area, I do have some experience. I have been constantly surprised by what people are, or are not, willing to do. People are so different that I think questions about caregiving need to be approached on a case-by-case basis rather than with a set of general assumptions.

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Thank you Tim,
This is very helpful. I will check the 2 links you have shared.
And yes, people will surprise the life out of you. I have found love in so many unexpected places, and I have seen what i was certain was love turn out to be something entirely different.
Yes, subjectivity is a key aspect in this. But some general principles are worth considering. It is similar with the works you have recommended that I look at, they were not written for me as an individual, but they may have useful insights that can be applied or adapted to my situation.

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buzz23 | @buzz23 | Sep 9, 2023
In reply to @olderdiva12345 "Good Afternoon, buzz23. I sincerely hope you are able to one day travel the world or..." + (show)
@olderdiva12345

Good Afternoon, buzz23. I sincerely hope you are able to one day travel the world or at least part of it. My deceased French husband and I traveled much of Europe and lived in the South of France for almost 5 years until his death...(long, long ago) in Le Val in the department of the Var about an hour inland from Toulon. We loved it there. I had to come back to the US for a variety of reasons and, of course, wish I had stayed just six more weeks to get my dual citizenship. Stupid on my part. That's yesterdays news. I have remarried and we are considering a move back to lakeside living in South Carolina from our current home in Florida...too many poeple, too many autos, too much crime, etc.. Time to move on. Hope you find your book. It is a hardback and beautifully illustrated. Judith

Jump to this post

It sounds like a life well lived Judith, not many people can say that about their lives. Living and moving on when it is time to do so takes a lot of courage. Continue being brave.
I want to start with short trips locally, and build upwards from there. I have 2 tentative trips planned for the end of this year. I will also need to find travel buddies at various points. I am really looking forward to it.
My father had a huge family and he often went visiting his relatives, I usually went with him so i got to do some travelling as a child, till my dad died. I need to resurrect that habit.

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1 reply
buzz23 | @buzz23 | Sep 9, 2023
In reply to @olderdiva12345 "Hi, again. I, too, am still in love with my deceased husband after 20+ years. What..." + (show)
@olderdiva12345

Hi, again. I, too, am still in love with my deceased husband after 20+ years.
What you are looking for is more than doable. Friendship, honesty, and trust is paramount along with kindness to one another. Good luck with finding someone who will reciprocate your feelings. Have you tried a dateing service? This is where I found my current husband who is my best friend and a true Gentleman and genuinely loves me thank goodness.

Jump to this post

Love really is immortality.
It is doable and a realistic goal, the how-to is the issue. I have noticed that some men get offended me having already met the love of my life. I suppose they envision themselves being that for someone.
I tried Tinder and it scarred me. In retrospect, that was not the right thing to try. Which dating service did you use? I am glad that worked out well. There really are some great people out there.

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1 reply
buzz23 | @buzz23 | Sep 9, 2023
In reply to @olderdiva12345 "Also I must add that if anyone you are "in love" with is not "in love"..." + (show)
@olderdiva12345

Also I must add that if anyone you are "in love" with is not "in love" with you or at the very least loves you enough to show you respecect, etc. you should walk away and don't look back. Had my share of jelous dates, etc. . Again, all the best to you.

Judith

Jump to this post

I am working on this. I give so much and get to invested so extricating myself if difficult, but I am working on it.
I recently walked away from someone who is not good for me. It has been hard, but I am very proud of myself for removing myself from a situation that was bad for me.

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Mentor
Miriam, Volunteer Mentor | @mir123 | Sep 9, 2023
In reply to @buzz23 "Have you discussed what will happen when you need more caretaking with your spouse? I love..." + (show)
@buzz23

Have you discussed what will happen when you need more caretaking with your spouse?
I love how the weight of everything isn't on you. You are right, a grownup should be able to identify and express their needs, and do something to have them met. The same way that you should say if you need help with something.
I don't know if I have other ideas.
I am young, so that is also an issue, to need caretaking so early in life is heavy. I am not married or in a relationship, and I live on my own. So my caretaking is by someone I am paying and a couple of friends. I currently have a lady who comes over twice a week, and a friend who sometimes cooks for me and helps with errands. But that is falling short. I am now looking into the idea of having someone like a health assistant or nurse, because some days I need help bathing and getting dressed etc. My mind is not liking any of it. Hence my asking how you are approaching the issue of needing caretaking.

Jump to this post

You are kind to ask--and I feel for you in your circumstances. Also, you do seem to be handling it well. I have a "committee" that helps me make all my cancer treatment & care decisions--husband, grown daughter, best friend. They are close to each other but have different perspectives. I'm guessing that when I get really sick I'll go pretty quickly, as I don't intend to treat beyond hospice. I've also got a less formal direct care group--neighbor, rabbi, friend who is a hospice nurse. I figure my household can manage short term with that and maybe hired help, and I have also set up a delivery laundry service. But if my decline drags on I'm in favor of assisted living near-by. My husband is totally against that. However, I've said it is a fine option with me. We had a close friend we cared for in hospice within assisted living--she had no family so a group of friends (many from former workplace) spent 6 months taking shifts most of the day. But she had meals, meds, linens provided by institution. My friends pension plus social covered the cost and I'm in a similar situation. As you can probably tell, I'm a worst case scenario person. Hope this in't too negative a response...but have given it some thought. Hope things are going well for you today!

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