Why isn't hormone therapy used in all prostate cancers?

Posted by upnort @upnort, Feb 15, 2022

An observation and insightful comment by one group member here: "Lupron/Eligard both shrink the prostate and stops the production of testosterone which feeds the growth of prostate cancer." If so, why don't all treatment options of prostate cancer include hormone therapy? I am waiting on a second opinion for my treatment (Lupron + EBRT) from Mayo hoping I can do without the often dreaded side effects of hormone therapy. I realize one size doesn't fit all, but why is hormone therapy used in some prostate cancers and not in others?

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@international9370

Can anyone tell me what hormone therapy does to you mentally? My Dad had a shot in July and hasn't acted right since. Gets mean,cusses my mom and gets very angry with her,makes rude sexual comments to women and even started running around outside in the nude this past summer. This all started after he had the hormone shot. He acts very odd. Thank you for any help.

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I had it 10 years ago ,It does soften you up ,Bui I would do it again. I just found a small spot on my iliac bone and getting ready to start radiation, Keeping my fingers crossed

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@ctpaul

This is so strange. About a decade ago I was rubbing androgel into my body on a daily basis and I felt like Superman ... eh, that may be a bit much. Probably more like Ben Afflack's Batman. Then I aged out of the Medicaid program and Medicare would not cover the androgel so I simply forgot about it. I began to put on weight and didn't have the energy to exercise. Then 2 years ago I raised the subject with my new primary care doctor. She sent me to the local Quest office for a blood test and one of the findings was that my testosterone levels were really low. So she referred me to a Urologist who had me go back to Quest for another blood test. When he got the results back he talked to me a bit about what Medicare would cover and I began going to his office where one of the nurses shot me up with some form of supplemental testosterone once every 3 weeks. This started in the Fall 2 years ago. After the Christmas holidays passed I told the doctor that I saw no change at all in my body. Off to Quest again and it was then that I began to hear the letters PSA with numbers atthere was also "the Gleason score" but that went in one ear and out the other. He took me off the supplemental testosterone, waited a month, got new readings from Quest and was told I needed to get a biopsy because it looked like I had prostate cancer.

My memory of the next 2 months are kind of hazy. I had ultrasound, then an MRI. He pushed me into the advanced robotic prostate cancer surgery, which I had on June 16th 2022. My entire prostate was removed. I went home the next day and once the catheter was removed a few days later I began to stain my wooden floor blood red. It took about a month before I regained some control over my bladder, and that there was an obvious decrease in the blood mixed with my urine.

A few weeks ago I joined Planet Fitness. I have not actually worked out there yet, because as I stepped out of my bathroom a week after joining I noticed that there was an odd bulge in my lower right abdomen. It looked like the alien in the film Alien. Like something was ready to bust out of my body. Yup, it is a hernia. After spending an hour with Google I found that ever since a European study done in 2013, it has been known that there is a linkage between prostate cancer surgery and hernias. There are standard recommendations of things NOT to do that may keep a hernia from developing after the surgery.

Too late now!

Up until a year ago the only surgery that I ever had was circumcision and tonsils removed. I honestly hate being in the hospital and I'm not too keen on people in the medical field. I've dealt with the past 6 months largely thru denial. I did everything I was told to do but in a robotic fashion.

So to sum up: Last Fall very low PSA. After 5 months of testosterone supplementation to no effect had a series of blood tests. Led to other tests, led to surgery. I never did experience the joy and wonder that I experienced a decade ago when using androgel. And now it seems that sex will be just a distant memory, because I don't intend to create an itch that I then am compelled to scratch.

Why didn't I become Tarzan with the second series of testosterone supplementation? Did I already have prostate cancer, or did the hormone therapy induce the cancer? Can I live with a hernia that mainly shows itself when I'm on the toilet and then gradually recedes, or is that just asking for trouble?

I've posted the same story 2 or 3 times in these forums. You guys must be getting bored! I intend to stay off the forum for awhile until I have something new to contribute. Happy holiday wishes.

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This is exactly what happened to me I was pumping up the testosterone for 3 years not realizing the the cancer was feeding on it.. then boom Gleason 9 surgery biopsy clean, 4 months bio reoccurrence ADT & 39 RT
I really feel more General practitioners and/or nurse practitioners should educate their patients in this..

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From what I am reading about Lupron there are serious side effects from Lupron. That's no small consequence. I haven't seen anybody talk about the interval between the shots, and when i think about it maybe that interval can be increased so as to diminish the horrible side effects. Now that i can see the overall picture of the disastrous effects of Lupron the what about the other anti androgen drugs? There re quite a few that are mentioned, but no one has had them. So again, it seems to me that there needs to be greater consideration about the side effects of Lupron before going too quickly into its use. The issue now is that there are more anti androgen drugs, that might be able to be combined with a lower dose of lupron that might diminish the side effects. I would love a comment on this.

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@billmoskowitz

From what I am reading about Lupron there are serious side effects from Lupron. That's no small consequence. I haven't seen anybody talk about the interval between the shots, and when i think about it maybe that interval can be increased so as to diminish the horrible side effects. Now that i can see the overall picture of the disastrous effects of Lupron the what about the other anti androgen drugs? There re quite a few that are mentioned, but no one has had them. So again, it seems to me that there needs to be greater consideration about the side effects of Lupron before going too quickly into its use. The issue now is that there are more anti androgen drugs, that might be able to be combined with a lower dose of lupron that might diminish the side effects. I would love a comment on this.

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I agree with you and can attest as living proof. After now having a total of 42 months of it spread out over 7+ years,5 different rounds. The first 2 times I was on it I recovered well(3 month shot Preop then 8 months first reoccurrence). I have continued to run and moderate weight lifting,not a couch potato by no means. Was back to full running ability after I was off it for over a year but after 3 more rounds with salvage radiation twice I finally said I wanted no more and the doctor agreed. I have never quit exercising but it sure is a struggle and despite continuing my muscle strength has continued to deteriorate among the other side effects. Many oncologists turn straight to it. Be weary of them if that is all they wanna do.

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@billmoskowitz

From what I am reading about Lupron there are serious side effects from Lupron. That's no small consequence. I haven't seen anybody talk about the interval between the shots, and when i think about it maybe that interval can be increased so as to diminish the horrible side effects. Now that i can see the overall picture of the disastrous effects of Lupron the what about the other anti androgen drugs? There re quite a few that are mentioned, but no one has had them. So again, it seems to me that there needs to be greater consideration about the side effects of Lupron before going too quickly into its use. The issue now is that there are more anti androgen drugs, that might be able to be combined with a lower dose of lupron that might diminish the side effects. I would love a comment on this.

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Try Zolodex

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I just completed a year of lupron, plus Erleada and RP ((had that 6 months ago) and I am feeling so much better now. However, that treatment is not as bad as many chemo treatments and it has reduced my Gleason 9 cancer to 12 testosterone and 0 PSA. I am hopeful for a cure, but that is a long shot and my UCLA doctor tells me to expect 5-7 more years. If I have to return to these meds I would because staying alive is very important to me. You feel the effects of those meds but it is manageable.

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In reply to @melcanada "Try Zolodex" + (show)
@melcanada

Try Zolodex

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I think it has different effects on people. I received Lupron for 25 months. About halfway through the treatment I noticed I had very little energy especially in my and told the urologist I didn't like it and would like to stop it. He said I needed to continue to take it for 2 years so I did. I am now almost 4 years post Lupron, have very little energy, my testosterone is about 15 and will be that or less for the rest of my life and I wish I would have stopped taking Lupron when I initially wanted to. I can't imagine ever agreeing to take Lupron again. However, I think others are not adversely effected by it very much at all.

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There are no 'free lunches' in PCa treatment. ADT can have a high physiological (and sometimes mental) cost. Like having your prostate cut out or being irradiated, it's not something most people would choose to do if it wasn't a choice between that and an early death.
HT does improve the statistics, and a patient or healthcare provider who sees that and stops thinking about it at that point will favor hormone therapy whether needed or not.

Do it IF you need it, avoid it if you don't. Look up presentations on managing the side-effects; daily exercise and some meds help.

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Slight energy loss on zolodex The radiation to my L2 lumbar is like taking a brick out

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@mrscott

There are no 'free lunches' in PCa treatment. ADT can have a high physiological (and sometimes mental) cost. Like having your prostate cut out or being irradiated, it's not something most people would choose to do if it wasn't a choice between that and an early death.
HT does improve the statistics, and a patient or healthcare provider who sees that and stops thinking about it at that point will favor hormone therapy whether needed or not.

Do it IF you need it, avoid it if you don't. Look up presentations on managing the side-effects; daily exercise and some meds help.

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Have you actually seen the numbers/statistics on PCa outcomes +/- Lupron/ADT following either RP or Radiation? It would be helpful to get an idea of the tradeoffs we are asked to make in our overall health enjoyment of life with ADT treatment versus years of disease free life, or years of life added by ADT.

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