Neuropathy: Numbness only, no pain
When I was first diagnosed with idiopathic small fiber peripheral neuropathy and numbness was my only symptom, my neurologist told me that I am one of the "lucky" few who didn't also have pain and other associated symptoms of neuropathy. I knew there were others out there but yesterday I met my first member on Connect who has a similar diagnosis. I want to thank that member for joining Mayo Clinic Connect and sending me a private message that I would like to answer here to start this discussion.
Hello @afirefly, Welcome to Connect. You mentioned being diagnosed with large fiber demyelinating predominately sensory peripheral neuropathy at Mayo Clinic. The neurologist's recommendation was exercise and balance exercises. Your symptoms are less than one year and are primarily progressive loss of sensation in your hands and feet. You also said aside from occasional muscle cramps in your calves and dyesthesias in hands and feet, you experience little discomfort. Your greatest concern now is the degree of disability you will have as the numbness progresses.
I can tell you that we think a lot alike. When I walked out of the neurologists office with similar symptoms of just numbness in the feet and lower legs with no pain – and no recommendations for treatment, I was pretty down. I was told to let them know as the condition progressed and my biggest fear at the time was not being able to drive myself. That's when I started doing my own research and found Mayo Clinic Connect after being diagnosed with idiopathic small fiber PN.
You have some really good and thoughtful questions which I will try to answer the best I can.
Question: Although you have improved on the Protocol, did you ever have complete loss of sensation in your feet? I ask because I truly dread the possibility of total sensory loss in my feet.
Answer: I never had a complete loss of sensation in my feet. At the worst, they felt numb and sometimes tingly but not painful, just uncomfortable. They mostly always feel cold and after being diagnosed with lymphedema I have to wear compression socks which doesn't help the numbness feeling. I have noticed that it seems like I've had some feeling returning ever so often when I'm exercising on my crossfit exercise bike. I use it several times a day for 30 to 45 minutes when I can to build up leg and arm strength. I recently purchased a device called a Sand Dune Stepper to work on my balance issues. I do think it helps and I've noticed a little more feeling in the bottom of my feet – if that makes sense for numb feet. Website – https://www.sanddunestepper.com/
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Question: Assuming you have little or no sensation in your toes and the soles of your feet, are you still able to drive a car?
If yes, would you kindly tell me what maneuvers/measures you have used over the years to compensate for the absence of feeling in your feet while driving?
Answer: I am still able to drive a car. The numbness was always a concern in my mind but never kept me from feeling the pressure of placing my feet on the pedals and pushing them down or letting them up.
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Question: Assuming you have little or no sensation in your toes and the soles of your feet, how difficult is it for you to walk? Before my neuropathy, if my foot was in a position too long it would "go to sleep" from lack of circulation to the nerves. The sensation would return seconds later once I changed my foot position. However, I don't believe I would have been able to walk on that sleeping foot until the circulation had been restored. Please tell me if there are/were any maneuvers/measures you have used over the years to compensate for the absence of feeling in your feet while walking.
Answer: When I was in my late 40s, my wife would sometimes tell me that I walk like an old man and now I am one and still walking the same. I've always been slow getting up and slow to take the first steps when walking. I guess I would call it trying to be careful because I wasn't sure of my footing. I think recognizing that your feet may not be as steady is a good thing and keeps you alert when walking. I struggle with walking any distance due to lower back issues. I recently had some physical therapy to learn some back and stomach muscle strengthing exercises which has helped some. Now I just have to execute a plan to do them often.
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Question: You indicated that the cost of the old Protocol was under $10/day (prior to 525 Protocol) several years ago and that the current 525 Protocol is $6.44/day. Does that mean Protocol 525 these days costs somewhat less than the old (original) Protocol?
Answer: Each item in the original protocol lasted a different number of days so the cost was more spread out and roughly calculated at under $10/day. The new 525 Protocol is a 30 day supply for $6.44/day ($193.20). It's also fewer pills to swallow which I really like. The Ramp up version is different due to the R-ALA in the regular 30 day supply. The daily R-ALA dosage is 1200 mg which causes some people to have stomach problems so the ramp up is to gradually increase the dosage to get use to the higher amount. I never had an issue because I was already taking supplements for the PN from my research and was taking that amount of ALA before I found the original protocol. Related discussion — Have you tried the new Protocol 525 product for neuropathy relief?: https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/have-you-tried-the-new-protocol-525-product-for-neuropathy-relief/
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Question: Do you use orthotics or inserts in your shoes? Special shoes?
Answer: I've tried some orthotics and different inserts but don't always use them. I found some felt/wool inserts that I like during the winter time as an extra cushion. I do like Sketchers because of the memory foam cushion and comfort. I used to wear the canvas shell ones but my neurologist told me it would be best to wear shoes with good side support for walking. So, I try to choose slip-ons with good side support made out of leather. There is another discussion on Connect you might find helpful for shoes – If the shoe fits…right?: https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/if-the-shoe-fits-right/
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Question: Besides daily foot exams, lotion to your feet, and avoiding barefoot walking, are there any other measures you use to protect your numb feet?
Answer: For me, this all started with a trip to the ER after waking up one night to go to the bathroom and when reaching the bathroom seeing blood all over the floor and trying to figure out where it's coming from. Surprised was I to see it pumping in a small stream from my ankle. Long story short, I unconciously rubbed my feet during the night and I had a hang nail on my big toe which tore the skin and part of a vein close to the surface. After that episode, I always wear white short loose socks to bed and I apply lotion to my feet and legs to keep them moisturized. I think that also helps with the healing process when you think that there are tiny sensory nerves just under the skin and it helps to keep the skin moist to protect them.
Hope this helps…let me know if I missed anything or if you have any other questions. We have a great group of members with a lot of experience here on Connect.
John
Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Neuropathy Support Group.
I have had and ignored my idiopathic small fiber peripheral neuropathy WITHOUT PAIN for years.
Is there a medication for this condition, and, if so, how effective is it and what are the side effects?
@gamousa
Gabapentin is probably the most widely used drug for neuropathy. Gabapentin is probably the most widely used drug for neuropathy. gabapentin is probably effective in about 40% of people who take it perhaps even less than that gabapentin is an anti-seizure medication and they do come with plenty of side effects. However I’ve been on seizure medication’s for 55 years and probably the only side effects I have are balance memory, and some fatigue problems. I have taken phenobarbital, which is probably most responsible for any fatigue, which isn’t really bad. Gabapentin is usually very well excepted side effect wise are used to take the maximum dose (3,600 my) of it for neuropathy and seizures, but it never worked for either one. My brother on the other hand takes the maximum dose and it’s very beneficial for him. they also use another seizure medicine, called Lyrica, and occasionally when called Tegretol/carbamazepine.
Sometimes Sometimes anti-depressants are also used as well as pain medication’s. I use the fentanyl patch for a number of years which was beneficial when I had all the painful effects of neuropathy but now my neuropathy only consists of numbness, so I don’t take anything for that not that anything would work anyway.
@johnbishop and others are more familiar with various supplements that help some people and also CBD oil. familiar with various supplements that help some people and also CBD oil.
Hope that helps a little.
Jake
Thank you Jake. I think I will look more closely at CBD oil.
Hello @gamousa and welcome to Mayo Clinic Connect. I see that @jakedduck1 has joined you to share his experience and some information as well as mentioned CBD oil that seems to be of interest to you.
You will notice that I have moved your post into an existing discussion on Neuropathy that you can find here:
- Neuropathy: Numbness only, no pain: https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/neuropathy-numbness-only-no-pain/
Have you started to experience pain just recently?
@gamousa
Chris @artscaping has written about CBD for Neuropathy if memory serves and I believe has been using it for several years. Hopefully, she will reply here and enlighten us.
Take care,
Jake
Good evening @gamousa and thanks for the introduction Jake, @jakedduck1. Yes, I have been using medical cannabis since my skin biopsy diagnosis in 2013. The results at that time indicated a severe loss of nerve cells in areas of my body. And it all started with a few toes on just my right foot, then the bottom of my feet, and now the condition has moved on up to my ankles.
You replied that you think you will start with a closer look at CBD oil. Actually, I stick with medical cannabis tinctures and topicals. Currently, I have two jars on my nightstand. One is a 3:1 CBD/THC and is best for chronic pain and numbness in my hands, wrists, and feet. The other is a 1:3 CBD/THC which I use for acute pain, especially after shopping at Costco or taking a 2-mile walk along the river.
Here is a link to very current findings about CBD. It is called the CBD project and contains dosing information.
https://www.projectcbd.org/guidance/cbd-dosing
However, you should also know that research is beginning to show pain benefits from THC which may not be an issue for you at this time.
A few years ago when the numbness in my feet became a driving hazard, I began having an MFR (Myofascial Release) treatment every week. I now have these sessions twice a week so that I can continue to drive safely.
In case you would like to research another option, this link is to the Connect version of MFR treatments.
https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/myofascial-release-therapy-mfr-for-treating-compression-and-pain/
Please let me know if this is a good beginning for you. And ask questions. Together, we can find answers.
May you be safe, protected, and free from inner and outer harm.
Chris
@artscaping
Is the CBD/THC all that you use for relief? None of the usually prescribed medications?
I didn’t remember it relieved numbness. Does the numbness go completely away or does it just give some relief ?
I have stage four neuropathy which is closing in on stage five fast.
I was informed yesterday, that my neurologist that I like so well passed away. I hate the process of finding and training a new doctor.
Take care,
Jake
I just read they have electric gloves. You might want to look into that.
Sadly, I've tried 3 different brands of heated gloves to use when I'm out and about blowing and shoveling snow and none of them get the heat to where it's needed in the finger tips. What has worked best for me is a good old fashioned set of chopper leather mittens with a wool insert mitten, along with a hand/toe warmer that has a sticky back. I just stick it on the outside of the wool mitten and insert that into the leather chopper mitten. Keeps the hands and fingers toasty warm for a few hours. 🙂
I too have numbness with no pain. I see lots of discussion about feet and balance problems but little or none about problems with numbness in hands.. I can no longer touch type, or button my shirt without a button hook, and my handwriting is getting worse. My father and one sister eventually couldn't write, then later feed themselves. Anyone else having similar problems.