Is Low Diastolic Blood Pressure common with Stage 3 or 4 CKD?

Posted by Julie Chitwood @billchitwood, Jul 29, 2021

Bill has CKD. Has been on Atenolol for decades and it has keep his BP at a great range. However, we recently noticed that his BP has been dropping really low sometimes during the day, especially the diastolic (in 50s, 40s, and one day 34 diastolic. Then later it will go back to fairly normal or at least 114/60. Is this common with Stage 3 or 4 CKD? He has also been suffering from chronic diarrhea lately (once or twice a day a couple of times a week). He is 88. Doesn't want to go to doctor and have more meds as he is already on 8 prescriptions and several OTC. Has been suffering from fatigue for several years that doctors indicate they can't do anything for. Has an enlarged prostate (which coud have brought on the kidney problem along with old age?).

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Kidney & Bladder Support Group.

@gingerw

How great you have Robin around! Kudos to both you and her for being flexible and making all this work for now. It's certainly a challenge on a daily basis.
Ginger

Jump to this post

During the last two nights he has had to get up to pee six to seven times! Fluid intake the same as before - he was doing great with only 2-3 times a night. Not sure if I should be concerned or not. He does have an appointment scheduled with a nephrologist but not until September. Recent blood work showed things fairly stable except for a few areas.

His anger has abated a bit in past three days. Thank heavens.

The doctors convinced him to move more, which has helped and thankfully no recent falls or need to call 911 (that happened twice).

REPLY
@billchitwood

During the last two nights he has had to get up to pee six to seven times! Fluid intake the same as before - he was doing great with only 2-3 times a night. Not sure if I should be concerned or not. He does have an appointment scheduled with a nephrologist but not until September. Recent blood work showed things fairly stable except for a few areas.

His anger has abated a bit in past three days. Thank heavens.

The doctors convinced him to move more, which has helped and thankfully no recent falls or need to call 911 (that happened twice).

Jump to this post

My related personal issue very probably have nothing to do with your husbands but I thought I'd report them if only to illustrate how many different conditions can cause the same symptoms.

First, I'm 76 female, suffering for about two years from paroxysmal AFIB. (Take
Xarelto) Per my Apple watch, it is asymptomatic. BP normal.

I've been needing to get up at night to pee ("nocturia") for years, and the greatest nuisance of it is that I find it hard to empty, and if I've let myself overfill, also have trouble initiating flow.

I've had two bladder operations for stress incontinence about 25 years ago. After the second (both urologist and gynecologist worked one after the other), I was instructed to self catheterize - and after every urination! (that is no longer protocol). Good thing my insurance paid for the catheterizes as they were about $5/apiece! I always carried one around, in case I became completely unable to empty - quite a risk for my kidneys. Naturally, I also carried a sterile lubricant and sealed antiseptic wipe.

PSA I stopped some time ago, on my own discussing it with my OBGYN (suspecting it was leading to UTIs), and and am now left with hundreds of sterile sealed catheters! Not an eBay item really, but I remain reluctant to just throw them away given their market value (I'm sure they're even more expensive now).

In any case, here I am with nocturia as described (problem with flow and emptying). (I've gone through periods when the night-time urination occurred a dozen times and the emptying itself took up to five minutes.)

You did not mention taking your husband to be examined for a urologist (or did I miss it?). Prostate enlargement (sometimes cancerous - G-d forbid) often causes the nocturia you describe afflicting your husband.

Just a suggestion and anecdote about my own related health problem. Certainly a different cause but same symptom. (I think I have scarring in the urethra, but as it's not my most important symptom it's at the bottom of my medical todo list.)

I'd suspect I had a prostate problem except for obvious reasons it's impossible (I remember at one time I was living at home, my father had to get up multiple times during the night for a slow flow. His bathroom was between our two bedrooms.

REPLY
@realitytest

My related personal issue very probably have nothing to do with your husbands but I thought I'd report them if only to illustrate how many different conditions can cause the same symptoms.

First, I'm 76 female, suffering for about two years from paroxysmal AFIB. (Take
Xarelto) Per my Apple watch, it is asymptomatic. BP normal.

I've been needing to get up at night to pee ("nocturia") for years, and the greatest nuisance of it is that I find it hard to empty, and if I've let myself overfill, also have trouble initiating flow.

I've had two bladder operations for stress incontinence about 25 years ago. After the second (both urologist and gynecologist worked one after the other), I was instructed to self catheterize - and after every urination! (that is no longer protocol). Good thing my insurance paid for the catheterizes as they were about $5/apiece! I always carried one around, in case I became completely unable to empty - quite a risk for my kidneys. Naturally, I also carried a sterile lubricant and sealed antiseptic wipe.

PSA I stopped some time ago, on my own discussing it with my OBGYN (suspecting it was leading to UTIs), and and am now left with hundreds of sterile sealed catheters! Not an eBay item really, but I remain reluctant to just throw them away given their market value (I'm sure they're even more expensive now).

In any case, here I am with nocturia as described (problem with flow and emptying). (I've gone through periods when the night-time urination occurred a dozen times and the emptying itself took up to five minutes.)

You did not mention taking your husband to be examined for a urologist (or did I miss it?). Prostate enlargement (sometimes cancerous - G-d forbid) often causes the nocturia you describe afflicting your husband.

Just a suggestion and anecdote about my own related health problem. Certainly a different cause but same symptom. (I think I have scarring in the urethra, but as it's not my most important symptom it's at the bottom of my medical todo list.)

I'd suspect I had a prostate problem except for obvious reasons it's impossible (I remember at one time I was living at home, my father had to get up multiple times during the night for a slow flow. His bathroom was between our two bedrooms.

Jump to this post

Bill was diagnosed years ago for an enlarged prostate. For years he used a pee bottle at night rather then getting up. Last few months, with worsening dementia, he either missed or worse would get up, fall, and spill pee all over the floor. Last time he also cut his head so blood was added to the mix. Last two times had to call 911 as Robin and I could not get him up.
After the last time I bought a Raizer M, which helps someone get off the floor. Fortunately I haven't had to use it although I did test it out on Robin (worked really well and she was a good Guinea pig. We laughed a lot as well as I cranked her up.

Mayo is setting up all sorts of appointments for him. They also changed some of his medications and after about a month seem to be kicking in and last few days have been wonderful with no anger issues! Can only pray it continues. He is re-watching his beloved James Bond movies - either thinks they are new or he hasn't seen them for a long time (like the day before). I don't correct him. He is happy with them. Which is what counts.

REPLY
@billchitwood

Bill was diagnosed years ago for an enlarged prostate. For years he used a pee bottle at night rather then getting up. Last few months, with worsening dementia, he either missed or worse would get up, fall, and spill pee all over the floor. Last time he also cut his head so blood was added to the mix. Last two times had to call 911 as Robin and I could not get him up.
After the last time I bought a Raizer M, which helps someone get off the floor. Fortunately I haven't had to use it although I did test it out on Robin (worked really well and she was a good Guinea pig. We laughed a lot as well as I cranked her up.

Mayo is setting up all sorts of appointments for him. They also changed some of his medications and after about a month seem to be kicking in and last few days have been wonderful with no anger issues! Can only pray it continues. He is re-watching his beloved James Bond movies - either thinks they are new or he hasn't seen them for a long time (like the day before). I don't correct him. He is happy with them. Which is what counts.

Jump to this post

I'm glad to hear you and Bill are getting useful help, and am happy for you that Mayo is able to provide so much help, presumably as you must near the AZ branch.

I too rely on the bedside commode method so I have an easy time falling back asleep when the nocturia awakens me (I comfort my sense of embarrassment by recalling the centuries/millennia during which EVERYONE relied on chamber pots!). I occasionally think with horror about the days during which household staff actually tossed the "slops" out the window, using only the inadequate warning of "Gardee Loo" - Beware the "water". How unspeakably awful to have it land on you! Even stepping in the unsanitary residue is a dreadful thought.

But back to the blessed present of indoor plumbing, I am grateful to only have to rely on my improvised chamber pot as your hubby does. I dread the future when advancing age makes it more "hit and miss" for me - especially if (when?) I develop more severe visual and cognitive impairments. (My 99 year old mother is blind and has Alzheimer's and has had a number of serious falls, almost all trying to "transfer" alone to get to her private bathroom in Assisted Living. (Family is trying to avoid her unaffordable move to a nursing facility.) I'm afraid I've inherited both genetic predispositions..

As for my present improvised solution to the midnight pit stops, I rely on a small bedside touch light which insures I can see, but not so bright as to startle me wide awake. When I get up in the morning, I carry a plastic paint pail to empty, what's accumulated - so far, I've been fortunate not to have spilled it.

However, I have fallen midnight once so far - never knew urine was so slippery. 🙁 Your husband is fortunate to have such a loving, devoted wife and I congratulate you.

Aging is certainly an assault on ones dignity!

I remember when my mother first moved to Florida where she had better medical care and help from a sib. She was full of compensatory "jokes" circulating among her new friends (to cope with their fears) , all beginning "What's good about Alzheimer's"?

A few: "you can wrap your own Christmas presents" "you can hide your own Easter eggs", "you can reread your favorite murder mysteries", etc. Your husband is finding joy in watching over and over his James Bonds movies!

Bless you for taking pleasure in his ways of relieving the stresses of his cognitive decline. Facing all this alone makes aging all the harder. I'm very isolated, my two sons living far away. I worry about your coping alone with his occasional aggression (I have heard it's a common challenge for caregivers of AD sufferers) I hope you have help and respite.

REPLY

Lately Bill has been getting leg ulcers that have started bleeding. There doesn't seem to be any pain and he normally is not aware of it bleeding - like this morning. He also is suffering from dementia and chronic venous insufficiency (CVI). I'm not sure if the ulcers are related to the CKD or CVI - or both. They do seem to heal up after several weeks of care. Also has Purpura. And his worse area he has had basal skin cancers removed before. Now the skin is so thin in that area that removal would probably not be wise. Last time about five years ago they had a terrible time stitching him up and he bled all over the place, completely unaware as if filled his shoe, bled all over the doctor's hall and bathroom. I spotted it as he came towards me from the bathroom! He had no idea he was bleeding. Yikes!
This morning he has gotten blood all over the sheets but isn't up to getting out of bed yet. I cleaned him up and bandaged his leg and will address the sheets when he feels up to getting out of bed.

REPLY

I am 84 in stage 3b. My diastolic has bee going a little higher. Still in normal range but I have wondered about it.

REPLY

Yesterday we went to Mayo for two appointments, afternoon one to be 4 hour testing on the dementia. Checked in for first appointment and panic ensued as his vitals were 78/38 Heart rate 53. Room quickly filled up with emergency people - then off to Mayo ER. Robin arrived, leaving her 6th grade class doing a non stress math test. Lots of tests run - they still have him and running more tests. Not sure if he gets sprung today or not (no transportation until late afternoon). Robin and I finally got home about 7pm so a very long day as started for Mayo at 8:15am Ubering.
What is odd on notes it was mentioned ​ HTN with CKD stage 4 - among other problems he has. His GFR has consistently shown Stage 3 a or b (goes up and down from a/b). They did confirm yesterday he is anemic, which I had guessed from previous blood tests.
Does anyone know what HTN with CKD means? And is that why they are showing Stage 4?
Haven't been able to talk to him as his phone is goofed up. Since he can no longer use phones without my help I'm not sure if he goofed it up or it is just goofed up!
So now need to reschedule another whole day at Mayo! At least their food is good - although we didn't get to eat yesterday as in ER - and it was packed. Tried for steak and lobster but they said they had just given the last one away lol.
So waiting for doctor's report.
I did get to ride in the front seat of the ambulance. A first and hope not to be repeated. That ER room was freezing. They did bring in blankets for the three of us but still cold. It felt so good to walk out into Phoenix heat!

REPLY
@billchitwood

Yesterday we went to Mayo for two appointments, afternoon one to be 4 hour testing on the dementia. Checked in for first appointment and panic ensued as his vitals were 78/38 Heart rate 53. Room quickly filled up with emergency people - then off to Mayo ER. Robin arrived, leaving her 6th grade class doing a non stress math test. Lots of tests run - they still have him and running more tests. Not sure if he gets sprung today or not (no transportation until late afternoon). Robin and I finally got home about 7pm so a very long day as started for Mayo at 8:15am Ubering.
What is odd on notes it was mentioned ​ HTN with CKD stage 4 - among other problems he has. His GFR has consistently shown Stage 3 a or b (goes up and down from a/b). They did confirm yesterday he is anemic, which I had guessed from previous blood tests.
Does anyone know what HTN with CKD means? And is that why they are showing Stage 4?
Haven't been able to talk to him as his phone is goofed up. Since he can no longer use phones without my help I'm not sure if he goofed it up or it is just goofed up!
So now need to reschedule another whole day at Mayo! At least their food is good - although we didn't get to eat yesterday as in ER - and it was packed. Tried for steak and lobster but they said they had just given the last one away lol.
So waiting for doctor's report.
I did get to ride in the front seat of the ambulance. A first and hope not to be repeated. That ER room was freezing. They did bring in blankets for the three of us but still cold. It felt so good to walk out into Phoenix heat!

Jump to this post

Oh my, Julia - What an unwelcome adventure.
HTN is medical shorthand for hypertension - high blood pressure - so the note is puzzling, to say the least.
As for communication in the hospital - what we did when my Mom was no longer able to use her cell independently was to put our numbers on the patient communication boards in the room, with a note to staff - "Please assist PT by dialing room phone for her to call us any time."
It also worked for us last year when out friend was in hospital in TX and couldn't dial.

We always bring warm jackets to clinic or hospital - staff is running around, we're sitting - naturally they lower temp to stay comfortable.

Good luck and thank you for the update.
Sue

REPLY
@sueinmn

Oh my, Julia - What an unwelcome adventure.
HTN is medical shorthand for hypertension - high blood pressure - so the note is puzzling, to say the least.
As for communication in the hospital - what we did when my Mom was no longer able to use her cell independently was to put our numbers on the patient communication boards in the room, with a note to staff - "Please assist PT by dialing room phone for her to call us any time."
It also worked for us last year when out friend was in hospital in TX and couldn't dial.

We always bring warm jackets to clinic or hospital - staff is running around, we're sitting - naturally they lower temp to stay comfortable.

Good luck and thank you for the update.
Sue

Jump to this post

We normally bring warm clothes to hospital - just didn't see that one coming!
Good idea on the phone. When I got through the first time they were working on him. Tried back and couldn't get through so left message with the nurse. His hearing aids are running out of charge.
No word from hospital. They are still monitoring him.
Feel in limbo and not getting much accomplished this morning. Also family keeps checking in and we have a lot of family.

Also the blood work on his liver showing low protein for the first time. Low palates etc as well.

I thought they might be referring to hypertension but due to his med that has always been kept at about 128/80 - until about a year ago when I noticed times it really dropped low but doctor didn't seem concerned.

REPLY
@billchitwood

We normally bring warm clothes to hospital - just didn't see that one coming!
Good idea on the phone. When I got through the first time they were working on him. Tried back and couldn't get through so left message with the nurse. His hearing aids are running out of charge.
No word from hospital. They are still monitoring him.
Feel in limbo and not getting much accomplished this morning. Also family keeps checking in and we have a lot of family.

Also the blood work on his liver showing low protein for the first time. Low palates etc as well.

I thought they might be referring to hypertension but due to his med that has always been kept at about 128/80 - until about a year ago when I noticed times it really dropped low but doctor didn't seem concerned.

Jump to this post

I hope you get some answers soon - waiting is so hard.
Hugs!
Sue

REPLY
Please sign in or register to post a reply.