Neuropathy: Numbness only, no pain

Posted by John, Volunteer Mentor @johnbishop, Sep 10, 2020

When I was first diagnosed with idiopathic small fiber peripheral neuropathy and numbness was my only symptom, my neurologist told me that I am one of the "lucky" few who didn't also have pain and other associated symptoms of neuropathy. I knew there were others out there but yesterday I met my first member on Connect who has a similar diagnosis. I want to thank that member for joining Mayo Clinic Connect and sending me a private message that I would like to answer here to start this discussion.

Hello @afirefly, Welcome to Connect. You mentioned being diagnosed with large fiber demyelinating predominately sensory peripheral neuropathy at Mayo Clinic. The neurologist's recommendation was exercise and balance exercises. Your symptoms are less than one year and are primarily progressive loss of sensation in your hands and feet. You also said aside from occasional muscle cramps in your calves and dyesthesias in hands and feet, you experience little discomfort. Your greatest concern now is the degree of disability you will have as the numbness progresses.

I can tell you that we think a lot alike. When I walked out of the neurologists office with similar symptoms of just numbness in the feet and lower legs with no pain – and no recommendations for treatment, I was pretty down. I was told to let them know as the condition progressed and my biggest fear at the time was not being able to drive myself. That's when I started doing my own research and found Mayo Clinic Connect after being diagnosed with idiopathic small fiber PN.

You have some really good and thoughtful questions which I will try to answer the best I can.

Question: Although you have improved on the Protocol, did you ever have complete loss of sensation in your feet? I ask because I truly dread the possibility of total sensory loss in my feet.

Answer: I never had a complete loss of sensation in my feet. At the worst, they felt numb and sometimes tingly but not painful, just uncomfortable. They mostly always feel cold and after being diagnosed with lymphedema I have to wear compression socks which doesn't help the numbness feeling. I have noticed that it seems like I've had some feeling returning ever so often when I'm exercising on my crossfit exercise bike. I use it several times a day for 30 to 45 minutes when I can to build up leg and arm strength. I recently purchased a device called a Sand Dune Stepper to work on my balance issues. I do think it helps and I've noticed a little more feeling in the bottom of my feet – if that makes sense for numb feet. Website – https://www.sanddunestepper.com/
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Question: Assuming you have little or no sensation in your toes and the soles of your feet, are you still able to drive a car?
If yes, would you kindly tell me what maneuvers/measures you have used over the years to compensate for the absence of feeling in your feet while driving?

Answer: I am still able to drive a car. The numbness was always a concern in my mind but never kept me from feeling the pressure of placing my feet on the pedals and pushing them down or letting them up.
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Question: Assuming you have little or no sensation in your toes and the soles of your feet, how difficult is it for you to walk? Before my neuropathy, if my foot was in a position too long it would "go to sleep" from lack of circulation to the nerves. The sensation would return seconds later once I changed my foot position. However, I don't believe I would have been able to walk on that sleeping foot until the circulation had been restored. Please tell me if there are/were any maneuvers/measures you have used over the years to compensate for the absence of feeling in your feet while walking.

Answer: When I was in my late 40s, my wife would sometimes tell me that I walk like an old man and now I am one and still walking the same. I've always been slow getting up and slow to take the first steps when walking. I guess I would call it trying to be careful because I wasn't sure of my footing. I think recognizing that your feet may not be as steady is a good thing and keeps you alert when walking. I struggle with walking any distance due to lower back issues. I recently had some physical therapy to learn some back and stomach muscle strengthing exercises which has helped some. Now I just have to execute a plan to do them often.
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Question: You indicated that the cost of the old Protocol was under $10/day (prior to 525 Protocol) several years ago and that the current 525 Protocol is $6.44/day. Does that mean Protocol 525 these days costs somewhat less than the old (original) Protocol?

Answer: Each item in the original protocol lasted a different number of days so the cost was more spread out and roughly calculated at under $10/day. The new 525 Protocol is a 30 day supply for $6.44/day ($193.20). It's also fewer pills to swallow which I really like. The Ramp up version is different due to the R-ALA in the regular 30 day supply. The daily R-ALA dosage is 1200 mg which causes some people to have stomach problems so the ramp up is to gradually increase the dosage to get use to the higher amount. I never had an issue because I was already taking supplements for the PN from my research and was taking that amount of ALA before I found the original protocol. Related discussion — Have you tried the new Protocol 525 product for neuropathy relief?: https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/have-you-tried-the-new-protocol-525-product-for-neuropathy-relief/
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Question: Do you use orthotics or inserts in your shoes? Special shoes?

Answer: I've tried some orthotics and different inserts but don't always use them. I found some felt/wool inserts that I like during the winter time as an extra cushion. I do like Sketchers because of the memory foam cushion and comfort. I used to wear the canvas shell ones but my neurologist told me it would be best to wear shoes with good side support for walking. So, I try to choose slip-ons with good side support made out of leather. There is another discussion on Connect you might find helpful for shoes – If the shoe fits…right?: https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/if-the-shoe-fits-right/
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Question: Besides daily foot exams, lotion to your feet, and avoiding barefoot walking, are there any other measures you use to protect your numb feet?

Answer: For me, this all started with a trip to the ER after waking up one night to go to the bathroom and when reaching the bathroom seeing blood all over the floor and trying to figure out where it's coming from. Surprised was I to see it pumping in a small stream from my ankle. Long story short, I unconciously rubbed my feet during the night and I had a hang nail on my big toe which tore the skin and part of a vein close to the surface. After that episode, I always wear white short loose socks to bed and I apply lotion to my feet and legs to keep them moisturized. I think that also helps with the healing process when you think that there are tiny sensory nerves just under the skin and it helps to keep the skin moist to protect them.

Hope this helps…let me know if I missed anything or if you have any other questions. We have a great group of members with a lot of experience here on Connect.

John

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Neuropathy Support Group.

@njed

The 20% with no pain and only numbness also seems to me a little high, I thought it would be in the 10% to 15% area. Another odd thing I've found is just about every health professional I've been to, the number one question I'm asked is...you're a diabetic, right? When I say no, I get this hmmm. My A1C is in the 5.8 area and blood sugar tests are normal. My wife is on an insulin pump, so I keep an eye on things. One neurologist said to me that she thought I was a diabetic. My guess was her observation of my symptoms. I don't know which is worse, having a cause, a reason, for my PN or being idiopathic. Problem is, being idiopathic, one seems to be looking for the cause. It's our nature to want to know.

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I guess I struggle with being idiopathic because I can’t help but think that knowing a cause gives you clearer guidance on what to focus on to ease the condition and symptoms. However, medical recommendations are often vague when you do know something: get a skin cancer biopsy and the doc says keep a bandaid over it for 2 weeks, another says do not, it needs to air out; muscle strain? One says use ice, another says heat. Your medicine prescription says it may cause diarrhea or constipation, sleepiness or restlessness, increased appetite or decreased appetite, and so on. So you might be on to something, knowing the cause may be just as confusing or futile as not knowing. The beauty of this site is people sharing and we feeling safer trying remedies that have worked on others with similar symptoms and networking. You hit the nail in the head with pain intolerance; I often wondered how useful a gauge it is to ask patients to rate their scale of pain because there’s no way of comparing your 6 to my 6. Maybe the faces some doctors have with their scales help a little, with 1 being a smiley face and changing faces leading up to ten having a sobbing face, but I don’t know.

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@johnbishop

Hi Ed @njed, It is a head scratcher indeed. I think I heard or read that 20% of people with neuropathy don't have the pain, just numbness. Another quirk to throw into the equation is that each of us have our own pain scale and what it feels like so that may play a part in the no pain equation.

The term idiopathic gives me cause to laugh a little as I remember listening to 3 different neurologist at a Minnesota Neuropathy Association meeting each sharing their perspective and what they know about neuropathy, symptoms, facts, treatments and more. The last one to speak was an 80 year old neurologist who mentioned if you live long enough you will get neuropathy. He closed by telling describing in colorful terms how the term idiopathic came about for a neuropathy diagnosis. It was named after the idiot neurologist who came up with the term. 🙂 I think everyone had a good laugh which is what we needed at the time.

I've often wondered about the possibility of different causes of my idiopathic small fiber PN especially since I know diabetes can be one of the causes and I've been in the prediabetic category most of my adult life. Last year I ran across some interesting information on the metabolic syndrome which is a cluster of conditions. I fall into that diagnosis. Mayo has some info on the metabolic syndrome here - https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/metabolic-syndrome/symptoms-causes/syc-20351916.

Here are a couple of articles that got me started if you want to learn more...
-- The Metabolic Syndrome and Neuropathy: Therapeutic Challenges and Opportunities: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3881591/
-- Metabolic syndrome as a risk factor for neurological disorders
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21997383/
Hoping we all can stay healthy and find some relief for the symptoms.

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Thanks for the information as I fall into the group with no pain but numbness in both feet. I have been prediabetic for 7-8 years.
mrw70

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@retired123

I have nearly the same story. Mine started in late summer of 2019. No help anywhere! Until I visited a doctor in AZ. Bottom line ~ he prescribed EB-N6. From the first capsule I felt "something". Now there is no denying the improvement. It's like magic and I'm just on day 8. I will share the details of my story if you like. I don't know how we can DM from here. In a month I will share my story with the group. I just never gave up!

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Dear @retired123 , Your comment is the most relevant to me. Could you please summarize your story and say how you are doing now with EB-N6. Could you reply asap to @rhm601 as I would like to start using EB-N6 right away. Thanks!!

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@rhm601

Dear @retired123 , Your comment is the most relevant to me. Could you please summarize your story and say how you are doing now with EB-N6. Could you reply asap to @rhm601 as I would like to start using EB-N6 right away. Thanks!!

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I have SFN and was taking Pregabalin. I no longer take Pregabalin and get better results with EB-N6. My symptoms are less troublesome but not gone, YET. I found I am not able to take EB-N6 as prescribed as it is very potent. I give it all the credit for my improvement. I suggest you also look into red light therapy. That is the short story of a 3+ year journey. Good luck!

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Thanks for your rapid reply.
Best wishes!

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Good Evening!
I am new here, although I have been up to Mayo a few times over the years. I too have small fiber neuropathy with numbness, but no pain. Some tingling at times too. My journey has been over the last 5-6 years. I was pretty healthy and things began changing then. Eventually, it was determined I had Sjogrens Disease which has caused SF neuropathy, dry eyes and mouth, autonomic dysfunction, fiber myalgia, and may have triggered a smoldering multiple myeloma recently too. I am overwhelmed! Focusing on my small fiber neuropathy, I am interested in any special treatment, or medication that might slow progression down. I was treated with hydroxychloroquine first, and I could not take it and then methotrexate which did nothing for the numbness. Not doing much for it now. I walk barefoot in the house because I can better feel my feet. Maybe that is a problem? And I have some balance issues when walking on grass, stones or uneven ground. Are there any good suggestions for me? And I too fear the progression affecting my ability to walk or drive in the future!

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@retired123

I have SFN and was taking Pregabalin. I no longer take Pregabalin and get better results with EB-N6. My symptoms are less troublesome but not gone, YET. I found I am not able to take EB-N6 as prescribed as it is very potent. I give it all the credit for my improvement. I suggest you also look into red light therapy. That is the short story of a 3+ year journey. Good luck!

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to retired123 - On your post you mention you were unable to take as prescribed, are you still taking EB-N6 at all even on a less dosage? Also, how long did it take for you to notice any improvement after stating EB-N6? My doc told me not to take Pregabalin. Ed

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@bjt

Good Evening!
I am new here, although I have been up to Mayo a few times over the years. I too have small fiber neuropathy with numbness, but no pain. Some tingling at times too. My journey has been over the last 5-6 years. I was pretty healthy and things began changing then. Eventually, it was determined I had Sjogrens Disease which has caused SF neuropathy, dry eyes and mouth, autonomic dysfunction, fiber myalgia, and may have triggered a smoldering multiple myeloma recently too. I am overwhelmed! Focusing on my small fiber neuropathy, I am interested in any special treatment, or medication that might slow progression down. I was treated with hydroxychloroquine first, and I could not take it and then methotrexate which did nothing for the numbness. Not doing much for it now. I walk barefoot in the house because I can better feel my feet. Maybe that is a problem? And I have some balance issues when walking on grass, stones or uneven ground. Are there any good suggestions for me? And I too fear the progression affecting my ability to walk or drive in the future!

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Welcome @bjt, I'm really glad you found this discussion and hoping that reading through the discussion will provide some helpful suggestions for you small fiber neuropathy without pain. I too found out early that there are no medications that helped me with the numbness. I shared my story in another discussion here along with others:
-- Member Neuropathy Journey Stories: What's Yours?:
https://connect.mayoclinic.org/comment/310341/
I would also share other posts in this discussion by members who may have additional thoughts to share with you on slowing the progression, helping with balance and more.
-- @stefspad -- https://connect.mayoclinic.org/comment/321584/
-- @fiesty76 -- https://connect.mayoclinic.org/comment/321595/
-- @user_che214927 -- https://connect.mayoclinic.org/comment/321598/
-- @afirefly -- https://connect.mayoclinic.org/comment/321609/

You mentioned your neuropathy journey began about 5 or 6 years ago. I think it's good that you are searching for answers. One of the best things going for you is learning as much as you can about your condition and what treatments are available that may help or slow the progression. A couple of sites I've found helpful in case you are not aware of them:
-- Neuropathy Commons: https://neuropathycommons.org/
-- Foundation for Peripheral Neuropathy: https://www.foundationforpn.org/
(eCatalog of Neuropathy topics - https://www.foundationforpn.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/11.23.2021-Website-eCatalog.pdf)

You mentioned having Sjogren's Syndrome and other related symptoms. There is another discussion you might also like to read through and meet others with similar symptoms:
-- Sjogren’s Syndrome – Introduce yourself and meet others: https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/sjogrens/

Do you mind sharing what your most bothersome symptoms are?

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@njed

to retired123 - On your post you mention you were unable to take as prescribed, are you still taking EB-N6 at all even on a less dosage? Also, how long did it take for you to notice any improvement after stating EB-N6? My doc told me not to take Pregabalin. Ed

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Yes, I still take it. I just adjusted how I take it. I'm a small person. I can't do 2 a day every day. I noticed a difference really fast. 10 days in. It was at 6 weeks I had to adjust the routine. I agree about not taking Pregabalin. It caused many side effects for me and it was NO fun detoxing. In my recent post I mentioned red light therapy. Look into it and chose for yourself.

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@johnbishop

Welcome @bjt, I'm really glad you found this discussion and hoping that reading through the discussion will provide some helpful suggestions for you small fiber neuropathy without pain. I too found out early that there are no medications that helped me with the numbness. I shared my story in another discussion here along with others:
-- Member Neuropathy Journey Stories: What's Yours?:
https://connect.mayoclinic.org/comment/310341/
I would also share other posts in this discussion by members who may have additional thoughts to share with you on slowing the progression, helping with balance and more.
-- @stefspad -- https://connect.mayoclinic.org/comment/321584/
-- @fiesty76 -- https://connect.mayoclinic.org/comment/321595/
-- @user_che214927 -- https://connect.mayoclinic.org/comment/321598/
-- @afirefly -- https://connect.mayoclinic.org/comment/321609/

You mentioned your neuropathy journey began about 5 or 6 years ago. I think it's good that you are searching for answers. One of the best things going for you is learning as much as you can about your condition and what treatments are available that may help or slow the progression. A couple of sites I've found helpful in case you are not aware of them:
-- Neuropathy Commons: https://neuropathycommons.org/
-- Foundation for Peripheral Neuropathy: https://www.foundationforpn.org/
(eCatalog of Neuropathy topics - https://www.foundationforpn.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/11.23.2021-Website-eCatalog.pdf)

You mentioned having Sjogren's Syndrome and other related symptoms. There is another discussion you might also like to read through and meet others with similar symptoms:
-- Sjogren’s Syndrome – Introduce yourself and meet others: https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/sjogrens/

Do you mind sharing what your most bothersome symptoms are?

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Thank you for all the great info.
My most bothersome symptoms include:
*Progression
*Loss of balance
*Relationship to Sjogrens concern

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