What's the evidence on Calcium and Vitamin D for bone density?

I do not have any stomach upset from taking boron. I take it with whatever medication I need - just swallow it down. I can get an upset stomach from taking just about anything. I just got off an eight week period of taking antibiotics after I was bit by a Lyme tick - this is my first day off - and I'm ready to do back flips I am so happy. It was killing my stomach. I stopped taking strontium last year. I have a dear friend who is both a doctor and a scientist, and he told me he didn't think it would do any good. He gave me the history on strontium - how it was discovered it casts a shadow on bones - which was discovered after we bombed Japan in WWII. It was a side effect from the nuclear bombs. But it subsequently did not prove to be helpful for osteoporosis. His mother had very very bad osteoporosis - was in a wheelchair for 30 years until she died. I know he would have given it to her if it were beneficial. So I threw all my expensive strontium out. If I'd known you then, I would have sent it all to you. It was Garden of Life. (I'm really down on Garden of Life - although I still use their probiotics and vitamin B. I heard yet another horror story about Nestle (who owns them) the other day - they have done yet another thing that has poisoned many thousands of people in third-world countries. It slips my mind what it was - but I'm going to try to find some other probiotics and vitamin B complex that I like because Nestle is just such a toxic company.)

I figure we are all in this osteoporosis nightmare together - so we have to try to help one another. Going completely off sugar is very good for your bones - and I also gave up all carbonated beverages. I have diabetes insipidus - which means I am CONSTANTLY feeling like I am dying of thirst and I am always in need of a bathroom to pee. It is a hormonal problem caused by my pituitary tumor. I tried taking medication for it - but it knocked my sodium off - and you don't want to mess with electrolytes - so I just continue to drink too much water. For many years (you have to remember I'm almost 70) starting when I was in my 20s, I craved something to drink all the time - and that was before the days of bottled water. So I would drink large Diet Pepsi or Diet Coke all day and all night. I think that - and the fact that my Human Growth Hormone was seriously deficient - are why I lost my bones. So I had to stop drinking anything that is carbonated as it robs the body of phosphorous which is necessary for good bone health. It was okay to walk around carrying a bottle of cola back in the early days - whereas it looked strange to be walking around with a glass of water (which was my preferred drink). To quote Maya Angelou, when I knew better, I did better - but the damage was done. I had osteoporosis since I was about 38 - about like you.

It is disappointing that doctors do not know more about nutrition - but are so quick to run to medications to fix everything. I am just the opposite. When something goes wrong with my body, I try to figure out why and see if I can fix it by eating differently or doing something different in my life. Those bone-growing drugs are straight up poison. If they really "grew" bone - you would be able to stop taking them after a while. All these women taking those drugs stuck in wheelchairs because their bones continue to break - it speaks volumes to me. Go on You Tube and find Dr. Jorge Flechea - he talks about boron for about 45 minutes or so. He has osteoporosis himself.

Also, about vitamin D3: You simply cannot get enough from the sun if you live north of Los Angeles. I am a gardener in sunny CA and when I got tested, my blood level was 3 ng/ml. I have supplemented and gotten my level up to 90 ng/ml. I rarely ever get a cold or flu - I just had my first cold in about 12 years last month. And if you DO feel you are getting the flu or a cold, take about 10,000 to 15,000 IU of vitamin D3 morning and night (it's best if taken after you have eaten something fatty). I have had swollen glands, been all stuffed up, just felt horrible - and I take a bunch of D3, and within an hour or two, I feel healthy again. You have to take it 2-3 times a day for the entire time you feel sick and for 7-10 days after you feel well again. It works every time. It works better than any cold medicine I have taken. Don't forget to take your vitamin K2 (mk4, mk7) as the makes sure the calcium you take goes directly to your bones and does not go to your kidneys (kidney stones) or your arteries. You don't have to worry about taking too much Vitamin K2. You can get a blood test to find out what your D3 level is.

Sunnyflower, I'm a bit confused about what you're saying. How is my 'story not typical and quite frankly shocking!'? My goodness, you think I'm implying I'm fit? Oh, no, I'm afraid I haven't been 'fit' for many years. I am working on it, tho and determined to get there. I intend to live longer and better. I've had seizures since I was 11 years old and been on very tough meds for 60+ years! Believe me, that hasn't been easy and I've dealt with many, many tough side effects...through those years. That was just the beginning. I've just arrived at this place, through hard work finally getting to Mayo doctors, multiple hospitalizations, and lots of prayers. I began the 'exercise' in the therapy pool when it was prescribed by my Mayo neurologist as the only exercise I can do, as something I must do for the rest of my life, as I am able. Understand, that exercise consists of WALKING in the water, and such movements. AND, it exhausts me. Mall walking is only now beginning, as I mentioned. I'm so excited to begin this effort. And, believe me, all this is a huge effort. January 2019, I was in the hospital 4 days for congestive heart failure, serious edema made it almost impossible to walk! I lost 9.5 pounds the first night in the emergency room after IV lasix! It took me weeks in rehab and with home health care to begin to live again. I'm thrilled I can walk! And most days, I can. I often gain 5-8 pounds from 1 day to the next, since my hormones don't deal with the sodium in my body....haven't had any salt in my diet for over 50 yeears. I began working with Mayo last April after I was diagnosed a 3rd time with MS. Mayo neurology has saved my life!! I don't have MS! Misdiagnosed for 12 years! Don't have Parkinsons, as I was diagnosed. Don';t have myasthenia gravis, as diagnosed. I do see double most of the time....This has been a very difficult, lonely, long journey to finally find the doctors who helped me, who have given me true diagnoses, excellent testing and treatments. I still hurt all day. I still use a cane and a walker when going out. But, my bones are stronger! My heart is healthier! My seizures are less/gone. Tremors are controlled. I can now stand up from a chair all by myself!! That's a milestone! Due to strenthening, working in the warm water and the walking I've been beginning. I hope this helps you understand where I'm coming from...actually, there isn't anything 'typical' about me...and I llike that. God forbid these challenges would be typical! I wouldn't wish that on any human. I, too, will be interested to know the next bone scan results. Last time, I was amazed that I had improved so much. At 35, my son was 12 years old, played soccer, needed his mom. I was told I'd be in a body brace in 3 years, a wheelchair in 5 years. I told the doctor 'NO!" And found a new doctor! ANd began my fight! I still fight against a wheelchair!!! I'm still fighting......

Parrotqueen, my heart sank when I read about your childhood abuse. It literally breaks my heart! I just can't stand the thought of it and how it has affected your life.

Iwear the Estrogen patch in the beginning for hormone replacement therapy but my Endocrinologist has kept it on me since 2001 for my osteoporosis.

Can you please tell me about the collagen peptide product /s you use? I have no idea what what to look for or how much to take and whether it's with food etc.

I 'm on so many supps and meds. Some have to be taken 30 minutes before food. Some can' t be taken with others. Some can't be taken within 2 hours of calcim, and the list goes on. Ug! But I do want to incorporate collagen peptides into my arsenal.

Thanks so much and know I will be upholding you in prayer for relief, comfort and peace for your soul.

Warmest wishes, Sunnyflower. 🙏🌹🤗

Dear ess77, thank you for your response. You said you had osteoporosis at a young age (35??, not in front of me now) and you said that wasn't typical. You talked about some weight-bearing exercises you do and your active lifestyle. I have learned that is great for and helps to prevent osteoporosis. That information you shared about yourself made me surprised to hear about your osteoporosis journey.

I 'm just now learning about Osteoporosis in detail. I didn't realize young active people who do weight-bearing exercises and have active lifestyles still get it.

I am in bed about 95% of the time. I have a lot of other diseases and am very weak. I thought my mobility limitations and weakness were huge contributing factors to my osteoporosis and osteoporosis in the general population. This is the perspective I'm coming from. Your story was very new to me.

I apologize if I upset you and feel terrible that you missed the compassion, support and good-will I extended to you.

I hope you can forgive me.

Myself and many others here are very empathetic toward one another's pain, struggles and hardships and try to express that so we know we're not alone and that we can understand and have experienced a lot of what each other go through. Not everything and not exactly, but a great deal.

I care very deeply about you and each person here on Connect.

Warmest regards, Sunnyflower 🌹

Sunnyflower: If you log onto Amazon (just to see what I'm talking about), type "collagen peptides" in the search box, you will see a wide range of products. There is a little scoop inside. You just put a scoop in whatever you are drinking - it blends right in. Most people put it in a smoothie. I put it in a cup of tea daily. It doesn't matter when or how you consume it. I know one guy that just sprinkles it on his food. I put it in my blueberry tea. Because of my strict no-sugar, no-wheat, no-anything diet, I look for collagen peptides from grass-fed cows. If the cows get hormones, antibiotics, steroids, corn, etc., the consumer gets those hormones, antibiotics, corn, etc. that the cow got. The Candida Cure diet by Ann Boroch (book can be found on Amazon() - it IS a very strict diet - but I have never felt better in my life. It was just frosting on the cake when I read that this is the best diet for deficient bones.

Ess77 - I am sorry for all you have had to go through. We have both struggled to stay alive. Doctors often make one bad decision after another with people like us - and sadly, you rarely find a good doctor until you turn 50 or 60 years old. Then it is a real chore to get your body aligned again. In the end, we are each our own best doctor and the medical doctor you pay is just a sounding board and the person that can either refer you to an expert, order tests, facilitates surgery, etc. You never know which doctor will step up for you - but once you have a good doctor in your corner, you are set. My infectious disease doctor has been that doctor for me. I hope you make a good run of it this time, Since I began The Candida Cure diet (by Ann Boroch), many of my diagnosed diseases have just disappeared. Hidradenitis suppurativa, myasthenia gravis, rheumatoid arthritis, osteoarthritis, fibromyalgia - oh the list is long. And Chronic Pain Syndrome. Now I sleep like a baby, awaken refreshed, I am no longer bedridden. I have to give credit to the neurosurgeon who has been hacking away at my pituitary tumor and the neuroendocrinologist who has adjusted my hormones. Once I get my shoulder replaced, I should be cooking with gas. I hope you and I both get there - and with a healthy skeleton to support us. I also need potassium daily - I get horrible muscle cramps. Please keep posting.

Parrotqueen, you are a very wise person! How true it is that doctors know so little about nutrition, vitamins, and minerals. Two nurse practitioners whom I know are quite wise about Vitamin D and calcium supplements; but I hear nothing about boron or K2. Thanks for the info re Dr. Flechea, and also about strontium. Blessings to you!
Nancy Guy

Wow thank you Nancy Guy! I guess I got tired of being misdiagnosed and told I had to take ever-worsening drugs. I never know if people want to hear what I have learned or not. So thank you. I continue to look for more and more nutritional information,

Hi 123suew, I am moni54, a new member. The bone drug Fosomax is a bisphosphonate as is Boniva, which I have been on for 3 years. I was also on Forteo for 2 years. I am 66 and pretty healthy except for PMR, diagnosed in October of 2020. I would urge you to read Dr. Lani Simpson's No Nonsense Bone Health Guide for insight into bone drugs and the pros and cons. They do work and there are potential side effects, but the alternative is the road to osteoporosis (which I had, I am now in osteopenia, thanks to Forteo & Boniva). My rheumatologist was glad to hear that I was already on Boniva. I had planned to get off Boniva and on to Evista, which is another type of bone drug, for maintenance, but then PMR happened and I decided to stay on Boniva for the duration of my PMR treatment, may it be short! If I recall, Dr. Lani suggests 3-5 years on a bisphosphonate is optimum for avoiding side effects. Many people are afraid to take bone drugs and with good reason as many websites and testimonials can scare people to death. Remember that those with negative reports are far more likely to post about their experience than those with good, positive results.

I used to have problems with PMR also - until I went off all sugar. I had a very high CRP (C-reactive protein) score, which is an indication of inflammation in the body. I developed candida overgrowth after being prescribed dexamethasone for adrenal insufficiency, and I had to stop eating all sugar. I will be on steroids the rest of my life, so I had to make this huge lifestyle change. Turns out, going off sugar was also the right move for my osteoporosis as well. I am having great luck with boron for my osteoporosis. (Did you notice that large hump on Ruth Bader Ginsburg's back? She had osteoporosis bad. She was always eating prunes from the bag - because prunes contain boron! You just can't eat enough prunes to make big change - so I take a supplement. You can also mix Borax into water - I think it is one-eighth tsp. in a liter of water. I just don't want to do that.). As soon as I get the Covid 19 vaccine, I will take a DEXA scan which will make my improvement official. I was literally fracturing from my osteoporosis. That hasn't happened in almost three years - it will be three years in February. That's how I know it is working.

But seriously, if you have so much inflammation that you are getting PMR, you might want to consider going off sugar, 123suew. It's only hard for about a month (two weeks, actually). It IS a lifestyle change. But once you've seen how great you feel without sugar, you will be amazed. It's not just what you think is sugar - it is also fruit, high-sugar vegetables such as beans, all baked goods, condiments, etc. I am following the diet found in the book called The Candida Cure by Ann Boroch, ND (I did not do the organ cleanses she recommends). I cannot recommend this diet highly enough to anybody or everybody that will listen. I've been on this diet for six years and I feel like a million bucks.

You are right - I had grave concerns about taking the "bone building" drugs. I was determined to find a nutritional way to heal my bones. I did a great deal of research and spoke to people who had suffered horrific side effects from those drugs - all of the bone-building drugs. I had already had a bad reaction (my jaws) to Fosamax. I did not want to take a drug like Prolia and have it last in my system for six months. I have so many drug allergies. But after I spoke with women who now had osteonecrosis (bone death) caused by the various bone-building drugs, I knew I would never use that medication. And so began my research into osteoporosis and how to correct it. I'm so happy I am on my way to better bone health with each and every meal I eat and every bit of Vitamins D3 and K2 (mk4, mk7), and now boron.

After going off sugar, my CRP level went from 13 down to less than 1.

Good luck to you.