C5-C6 issue affecting my shoulder?

@amywood20 I'm sorry I missed your response. I've been traveling and not online.

I know from my own experience with TOS, that overdoing any strength training resistance or weight lifting can kick up the symptoms. I have had the unbalanced chest tightness on one side be enough to cause a functional scoliosis and rotate my chest out of shape. It has caused me to loose complete feeling in my left arm below the elbow on one side of the forearm, and that was only relieved when therapeutic stretching rotated the thoracic vertebrae back in line, and my therapist stretched the tight areas on the front of my chest and neck with myofascial release. I get ribs that twist out of position. I was worried about loosing complete feeling because at the time, I still had spinal cord compression and was still looking for a surgeon willing to help me, so it made that seem like it was spine related, but it wasn't; it was the TOS doing that.

When you describe TOS symptoms laying on your back, that says to me that the front of your chest might be to tight, and that might be what you are feeling. If you stand sideways and look in a mirror, do your shoulders line up under the center of your neck or are they forward? When I first started laying on a foam roller, and stretching my arms out perpendicular to my body, they were so tight, they could not stretch to touch the floor. Doing this over time got them to the floor, and they are even better now because slowly I work at all the tight areas that are resisting that movement.

The ankle pain you mentioned can be caused by nerve compression anywhere along the path to the ankle. It can even be from overly tight muscles in your hips and pelvis. For me, I had a similar pain in my ankle that felt like a dog was biting me that was caused by bone spurs contacting my spinal cord in my neck. I could turn that pain on and off just by rotating my head. That was my first symptom of cervical stenosis before anyone diagnosed the spine problem, and that connection was missed by all the doctors I saw before I came to Mayo as being related to the cervical stenosis. I found medical literature with a case similar to mine, and I wrote to a surgeon at Mayo with that and he took me as a patient.

Here's a link about lots of pelvis alignment issues
Lumbar plexus Compression https://trainingandrehabilitation.com/identify-treat-lumbar-plexus-compression-syndrome-lpcs/

I see from the calendar, that you have probably had your knee scoped by now and met a spine surgeon. You do have a lot on your plate right now with possible shoulder surgery too. Any surgery will create scar tissue that will tighten your fascia and can make symptoms worse, and recovery is better when you can stretch this out with MFR therapy. It seems like you may need to choose your priorities of what should be addressed first. If you have TOS, most often MFR therapy is best over a long term because surgery for TOS can create more scar tissue that just adds to the problem. I was advised against surgery for TOS. I know a lot of this can be overwhelming, and the tricky part is when the pain originates somewhere else, and you had all this testing on your ankle. With knee problems, you can have issues with your pelvis and it's alignment which can cause sciatic pain and it seems like a spine problem. That is very treatable with physical therapy and MFR, and I've had pelvis alignment issues too and it all connects through my body as tightness from my neck and chest to my hips and pelvis. You'll need an expert level MFR therapist to figure all that out when you are able to work on it with your doctor's blessings. It takes a lot of patience when you are recovering from surgery and can't do therapy, but it's all part of a good recovery and following post op instructions. I went through that too when I was waiting for my spine to fuse and everything tightened up from surgical scar tissue. Work out your plan and in what order you need to do things to recover. Set your goals, and then you will take baby steps for awhile until you can get there, but you will get there. Believe that, and you can do it. Pay attention and get sensitive to the nuances of your symptoms and your progress. It helps to write it all down so you can chart your progress. You might not be able to continue with weight lifting as a regular routine. You'll need to listen to your body on that after you have recovered from any procedures. Work with a physical therapist and discuss that when the time comes.

As for anxiety, I've been there too. I was terrified of spine surgery, but I worked through that, and facing all my fears and learning from them changed my life. There is always a lesson in the adversity we face if we are open to learning from it. Fear can sneak up on you and be there in the background distracting you in your decision making. I've learned how to manage fear, but I'm not immune to it; I just recognize it sooner now and can take steps toward overcoming it. Just prior to my travels, about the time of your response, I was dealing with a dental issue that sent my anxiety upward again. We all are affected by our fears early in life and the patterns we learn, and I still have work to do. Work out whatever you need to do to ease your stress. For me that was using music and art as therapy.

Hopefully by now you have some more answers, and a better path toward your decisions. Let me know if I can help any further.

@jenniferhunter thanks for the response! Yes, I had knee surgery yesterday. There was a band of scar tissue in the area that was causing pain and then some in other areas. All of the tendons and ligaments looked good though. I am now just sitting around hooked up to the ice machine and hating it. LOL. Sitting in the recliner and bed is aggravating the nerves in my neck (assuming), as the pain meds I have help with the knee but do nothing for that area in my upper shoulder blade. Also have the left hand tingles and today, I woke up to find the tip of my index finger is numb. That hasn't been the case up until now. I suspect it's from bad positioning and then using the walker to get around. I put pressure on my arms when using it so the surgical leg isn't weight bearing. I image this is funneling up to the neck. The walker has a seat on it and I have been trying to scoot around instead. I have crutches but don't like using them. Hoping to be walking without any of this by Monday. The tip of the finger thing is frustrating.

I did meet with the spine doc and he is recommending ACDF surgery. He would add a spacer to the C5-C6 and then move the vertebrae above it back in place so I have the curve back in my neck. He does not think the issue is coming from my left shoulder, which is a relief since I will need to get the right shoulder fixed. I wasn't prepared for the surgery recommendation so I didn't have a list of questions. I scheduled another appointment in about two weeks to see him again and ask the 12+ questions I have. I need reassurance he is 100% confident that's my issue and surgery will fix it.

The ankle...had a MSK done on it. That doc said my ligaments and tendons are in pristine condition. He thinks it's a neuropathy. I am not sure how that would explain the snapping noise it makes sometimes. And, it's not one snap. It snaps with every step for a while and then stops. I know the physical therapist that looked at it prior to the MSK said both ankles weren't all that stable. He noted a little fluid in the ankle joint as well. He suggested an ankle brace and a few stretchy band exercises, noting it should be better in 5-6 weeks. I see a different therapist on Monday that will be doing my knee PT. I've gone to her for many other post ops and she has 20+ years in the profession. I plan to get her take on the ankle as well. I almost laughed though when the doctor said everything was in pristine condition. Having been a runner and then into weight lifting for two decades I doubt anything in my body is in pristine condition. LOL. Oh and he said that he thinks all of my issues are related to something and named a few diseases (can't remember the names). He asked if I have been tested for them, which I haven't. He doesn't think my cervical spine is an issue and is putting it on whatever these diseases are. It should be noted he is the radiologist who did the MRI review on the cervical spine. His report wasn't detailed and i remember being disappointed in it. So Monday I saw the spine doc who said I need surgery and then that afternoon I saw this other doctor that said I do not. I was so confused. I will do whatever blood tests he thinks I need if my primary care doctor wants me to. I don't think that's it though. The spine doctor explained my MRI in detail, showing what was touching what, etc. I tend to believe him over the radiologist but who knows. If I have cervical spine surgery I will do that first and then the right shoulder. I did let the two physical therapists who have been working on me and doing dry needling know about those appointments and my confusion afterwards. They discussed my email and both said if they were in my shoes (having seen me over the months) they would have the ACDF surgery. Like I said, I have lots of questions for the spine doc first. I see the shoulder doc that same day just as a follow up, as he wanted to know what the spine doc had to say.

This upper back shoulder blade discomfort and hand tingles/tip of the finger numbness is frustrating. I can't believe the pain meds aren't touching it. I hope once I am more mobile in a few days the nerves or whatever the issue is will calm down some so that at least the tip of my index finger has feeling again. Sorry this is so long. 🙂

@amywood20 I would encourage you to get several opinions about your C spine. Surgeons use different spaces, cages,etc, and plates on the front of the spine. If it is only one level to be fixed, it can be done with a bone graft and no hardware, and not all surgeons would offer that, but mine did at Mayo which is what I wanted. Hardware brings the possibility of complications if something is dislodged or a screw backs out. Patients can feel the plate in their neck. With my asthma, I didn't want anything extra in my neck taking up space, so I had only a bone graft. I stayed in a neck brace until fused at 3 months, and it as worth it to not have hardware. My neck also used to be straight, but since surgery, and my therapy, I have my normal curve back without a surgeon rebuilding it for me. I don't get pain with weather changes like a lot of C spine surgery patients with hardware do. It's better without rods because my range of motion is normal except that I cannot touch my chin to my chest, but it is darn close. My head turning is normal. If you have hardware placed on your spine to put a curve in, you probably will not have normal ranges of motion, and the longer the fused portion is, the greater the stress it will put on the adjacent segments that can move which raises the risk of spine surgeries in the future. Plates also do this and the fusion shrinks as it heals, so the plate gets longer in relation. If the plate rubs on the adjacent disc, it can cause injury and wear a lot sooner. There are immune reactions to foreign materials too, but none with a bone graft and my surgeon said it heals best with just bone. You can always elect to do the curve rebuild later if you think it is necessary after your recovery. My physical therapist advised against surgical intervention for the lordotic curve, and my curve is normal as long as I don't trigger muscle spasms in my chest and neck with over exertion. I also now how to fix it if it happens, and most of the time I feel normal without being aware that I did have surgery.

I think you are right that bearing weight on your hands will cause pain because it's compressing everything and you already have tightness between your chest and neck. Just the muscle spasms from a spine issue will do that. It would bother me too to do that because of TOS, and I am not as strong as I was before my spine injury and the muscle atrophy that came with it.

I still think you could have TOS issues, and your doctors are not even thinking about that possibility, as they are mentioning other diseases as a cause without you having a test to confirm that. That is just guessing. Also the the snapping in your feet and ankles happens to me too. I've had plantar fasciitis, and that starts with tightness in the hips, thighs or pelvis that translates down to the feet. I get snapping in a knuckle on my thumb, and my therapist has me pull on the joint and twist first in the direction is goes easily, and then in the opposite direction. I hold that with a gentle pull, and it reseats the joint . That is the same thing that happens in lower limbs, so myofascial release will probably help as it loosens everything. It's the tightness and twisting in the body that causes alignment issues, and over time, wear and tear on joints. When you subconsciously brace against something it gets worse too. I still guard my left shoulder and raise it, and I have to learn to stop doing it.

Your neck might feel better with a microwaved heat wrap to relax the muscles and it can act like a neck brace. I did that a lot before my surgery. Topical Arnica gel helps too calm nerves and inflammation. I have a list of questions I can find for the spine surgeon if you want it. Take it easy and don't push too hard for a faster recover. You body needs to take the time that it needs.

@amywood20
Is your head yet?
I stopped lifting until the PT said it was safe and then I used very light weights and few reps.
I built up slowly.
Yes, surgery is sometimes needed.
For me, after more than a decade of chronic pain, it was my time surgery.
Since I waited so long, I developed severe nerve damage in my legs and some in my arms.
Therefore, my PERSONAL suggestion is to see a neurologist and have an EMG, nerve test, to make sure you aren't doing any irreversible damage by waiting.
Good luck!
Ronnie

@grandmar Hello Ronnie,

It has been a while since you last posted. I hope that all is well with you.

@hopeful33250 - thanks for checking on me. I am scheduled for cervical spine surgery on Dec 19th. During my second meeting with the neurosurgeon he went over my MRI again and answered all of my questions. I feel confident in his skills and truly believe he wouldn't be recommending surgery if it wasn't needed. My neck has lost it's curve and one vertebra is slightly pushing in the other direction. He feels all of this is the reason for the disc herniations and said that if it doesn't get fixed then down the road I could easily herniate some of the other discs due to how pressure is being distributed throughout the neck. I know others who have gone to him (or had a loved one) and everyone says he is phenomenal. Once it is done and healed than I can have the full thickness tear in my right shoulder fixed. I am curious to see how much of the shoulder issues I have on both sides go away after cervical spine surgery. Because of the discs involved it can cause shoulder dysfunction and it has. I am having issues on the left shoulder and am praying that it's all from the neck, as one shoulder surgery is going to be enough. Thanks again for checking on me!

Thanks for letting me know, @amywood. I'm so glad to hear that you have a "phenomenal" surgeon. That sounds great.

Keep in touch, I'd like to know how you are doing.

@hopeful33250 I will definitely keep you posted! I do see my shoulder doc next week about the left shoulder one more time. That is not the one that will be getting surgery. I had a MRI on it months ago and although he reviewed it (quickly) and didn't seem to think anything needed to be done, I want him to look at it again. Obviously, a radiologist here read it. I also sent it to Mayo and had a radiologist there read it. This was when I was still in the confused phase of is it a shoulder issue or a neck issue. The radiologist at Mayo noted two things the local radiologists didn't. These things are minimal but I still want to discuss with the shoulder doc. 🙂

@hopeful33250 I will definitely keep you posted! I do see my shoulder doc next week about the left shoulder one more time. That is not the one that will be getting surgery. I had a MRI on it months ago and although he reviewed it (quickly) and didn't seem to think anything needed to be done, I want him to look at it again. Obviously, a radiologist here read it. I also sent it to Mayo and had a radiologist there read it. This was when I was still in the confused phase of is it a shoulder issue or a neck issue. The radiologist at Mayo noted two things the local radiologists didn't. These things are minimal but I still want to discuss with the shoulder doc. 🙂