D3+K2 Recommendation Please

Posted by beachbabe @beachbabe, Mar 19 6:51am

Could someone please recommend a good D3+K2 supplement without synthetic ingredients?

I have read that plant based is best and those that use lichen and chickpeas.

Has anyone used one from Thorne or Sports Research?

What is the recommended dosage? I have seen high doses like 5,000-10,000 iu of D3 in many of the brands and I would not want to take that much, especially in addition to the amount in my multi- vitamin.

I am 73 and have progressed from osteopenia to osteoporosis in some areas most likely due to taking Anastrazole for the past 2 1/2 years for breast cancer. I stopped taking calcium supplements and I am trying to get it through food instead.

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Osteoporosis & Bone Health Support Group.

naturallyj9 | @naturallyj9 | Oct 7 1:15pm

I use Metagenics D3 K2 and it is a softgel.

Amount Per Serving:
Vitamin D (as cholecalciferol) ... 125 mcg (5,000 IU)
Vitamin K (as phytonadione USP) ... 20 mcg
Menaquinone-7 (MK-7) ... 90 mcg
Other Ingredients:
Olive oil, gelatin, glycerin, beeswax, water, annatto extract (color), medium-chain triglyceride oil, and d-alpha tocopherol (antioxidant).

rashida | @rashida | Oct 8 12:09am

In reply to @prarysky "@petitefitsmartfemale If you follow the recommendation of the Japanese Ministry of Health, which has studied MK-4..." + (show)

@prarysky

@petitefitsmartfemale If you follow the recommendation of the Japanese Ministry of Health, which has studied MK-4 extensively, the daily recommended dosage of MK-4 is 45 mg. I think I read somewhere that recommended treatment would be 15 mg 3x/day because of MK-4's short half-life.

High dosage MK-4 is not available as a supplement by many companies here. It is also a rather expensive supplement. I have found it in 15 mg/capsule form and that's what I'm taking even though it's below the 45 mg dosage. I could easily increase that to 3x/day to reach 45 mg but that's an expensive option.

I looked into Life Extensions' Q&A section for their Mega Vitamin K2 and saw that another customer had posted a question about divided doses. Here's what LE said:

"Since Mk-4 has a short half life, it has been suggested to split the 45 mg per day dose into 2 or 3 times per day. Is it ok to open the capsule and pour some out into a food product, and split the capsule? Is the taste tolerable? Thank you for your help.
Asked by Joyce 2 years ago
Verified Reply - Pamela, Clinical Information Expert
You can, and it is still possible that you derive benefits from the nutrients. However, the product was not designed for ingestion in this manner so we cannot state that the efficacy will be the same as when the capsules are swallowed whole. Also, some may find the taste slightly bitter or objectionable because the product is very potent."
https://www.lifeextension.com/vitamins-supplements/item02417/mega-vitamin-k2-high-potency-for-strong-bones
I am tempted to try the Life Extension product. Open the capsule and divide its contents. Dosages may not be identical but they would at least have some spread over time. For me, there's an advantage in opening the capsule because I have a swallowing disorder so can't swallow large capsules or pills.

Having said that, though, I have been taking 15 mg of MK-4 for about a month. I feel something is better than nothing. But a quick search suggests that lower dosages of MK-4 may have positive results too:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23702931/
"Menaquinone-4 (MK-4) administered at a pharmacological dosage of 45 mg/day has been used for the treatment of osteoporosis in Japan. However, it is not known whether a lower dose of MK-4 supplementation is beneficial for bone health in healthy postmenopausal women. The aim of this study was to examine the long-term effects of 1.5-mg daily supplementation of MK-4 on the various markers of bone turnover and bone mineral density (BMD)."

"These results suggest that low-dose MK-4 supplementation for 6-12 months improved bone quality in the postmenopausal Japanese women by decreasing the serum ucOC and pentosidine concentrations, without any substantial adverse effects."

The Japanese appear to be doing more research on MK-4 than we are in the U.S.

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@prarysky what is he difference between MK-4 and MK-7?

prarysky | @prarysky | Oct 8 4:20pm

In reply to @rashida "@prarysky what is he difference between MK-4 and MK-7?" + (show)

@rashida Alas, I am no expert on answering your question. My basic understanding is that they can both offer benefits for bone health. Some people report reactions to MK-7 such as heart palpitations but that is not a common reaction for most, as I understand it. MK7 has a longer half-life compared to MK4.

If you search MK-4 and MK-7 on Mayo Connect, you may find others who can describe their differences better than I. Here is one such discussion:
https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/mk4-vs-mk7-for-osteoporosis/
Then there are others like Dr. Doug Lucas who describes the K2s including Mk4- and MK7:

Or Margaret Martin:
https://melioguide.com/osteoporosis-nutrition/vitamin-k2-for-osteoporosis/
You can also do an AI search and probably get a nice summary of each one.

reginacl | @reginacl | Oct 9 7:33am

My own strategy prior to starting on Tymlos was to up my normal Vitamin D dosage from 2000 units to 4000. I did have my Vitamin D tested preparing to start Tymlos and it was on the very low range of normal. After reading that a Tymlos pulls Vitamin D, I asked my endocrinologist if I could up the dose. I have read that 5000 units is a top range number. If you take too much Vitamin D, it can cause issues. I am scheduled for blood work later this month for my 6 month follow up after starting Tymlos and my Vitamin D will be tested. I am interested to see what the testing will show.

dragonbb | @dragonbb | Oct 9 7:51am

I take XYMOGEN K2-D3 5000.

njx58 | @njx58 | Oct 9 8:03am

In reply to @reginacl "My own strategy prior to starting on Tymlos was to up my normal Vitamin D dosage..." + (show)

@reginacl While on Tymlos, I raised my D level from 27 to 45 in six months by taking 4000 IU daily.

sherkush | @sherkush | Oct 9 8:45am

Look into SEEN the calcium chew. Food based supplement.

rashida | @rashida | Oct 9 12:39pm

In reply to @prarysky "@rashida Alas, I am no expert on answering your question. My basic understanding is that they..." + (show)

@prarysky thank you! Those links are very helpful - especially the YouTube link for Dr. Doug Lucas. Have you attended his masterclass?

prarysky | @prarysky | Oct 9 3:34pm

In reply to @rashida "@prarysky thank you! Those links are very helpful - especially the YouTube link for Dr. Doug..." + (show)

@rashida I have not attended his masterclass. His YouTube videos are excellent. I think there are others on Mayo Connect who have used Dr. Doug's programs or advice involving payment. You could probably search under "Dr. Doug" and find feedback on their experience.

I'm glad the links helped!