Do they normally do a pelvic lymph node dissection with surgery?

Posted by ginger38314 @ginger38314, Oct 3 8:16pm

Do they normally remove lymph nodes with a .86 decipher score and a low 3+4 volume cancer and no aggressive features on biopsy when you get prostate surgery done?

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Profile picture for notpetecrowarmstrong @notpetecrowarmstrong

@billfarm wrote "On the other hand i recently read a cautionary article about negative effects on the lymphatic system by removing too many lymph nodes in a given location."

That was a part of my surgeon's calculus. Despite having a high Decipher score, I had a relatively low-% favorable intermediate cancer, a PSA under 7, and a PSMA PET that showed no visible signs of spread, so he targeted only 5 LNs in the area his team considered most likely for regional spread.

I asked whether the Decipher score warranted more aggressive sampling but he said it was his opinion that the downsides of dissecting more started to outweigh the clinical value given the rest of my profile.

A higher grade or greater % cancer, or any number of other factors, could have argued for a larger number of LNs to be sampled, of course.

@ginger38314 I'm now 15 months out and PSA is where we want it to be, so I'm taking it 3 months at a time.

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I onlyhad 2 positive cores 3+4 and a .8cm lesion but that score changes
things somwhat.

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Many doctors will remove six or seven Lymph nodes, even if they show nothing in a scan. Some people have gotten lymphedema when they’ve had too many lymph nodes removed, Or just had them removed without sealing them properly. I can cause a little or a lot of problems. It just varies a lot from person to person.

When I had my surgery 16 years ago, With a 3+4, They didn’t remove any lymph nodes.

Here’s some medical information I capture about this subject.

"Lymph nodes aren't just passive waiting rooms for immune cells, they actively train and educate T cells, and send them off to do their job," said Professor Axel Kallies, PhD, Laboratory Head at the Doherty Institute and the corresponding author on both studies. "Our research suggests that removing lymph nodes during cancer surgery, a common practice to prevent tumor spread, may inadvertently reduce the effectiveness of treatments, such as checkpoint blockade and CAR T cell therapies. Preserving lymph nodes could strengthen immune responses and increase the effectiveness of immunotherapy."

But what are lymph nodes, and what do they do?
Lymph nodes are small, bean-shaped organs scattered throughout the body that act as checkpoints of the immune system. They filter lymph fluid, which drains from tissues, trapping and destroying germs, cancer cells, and other harmful material. Inside, lymph nodes are packed with immune cells like T cells, B cells, and dendritic cells that communicate, train, and multiply in response to threats

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Profile picture for Jeff Marchi @jeffmarc

Many doctors will remove six or seven Lymph nodes, even if they show nothing in a scan. Some people have gotten lymphedema when they’ve had too many lymph nodes removed, Or just had them removed without sealing them properly. I can cause a little or a lot of problems. It just varies a lot from person to person.

When I had my surgery 16 years ago, With a 3+4, They didn’t remove any lymph nodes.

Here’s some medical information I capture about this subject.

"Lymph nodes aren't just passive waiting rooms for immune cells, they actively train and educate T cells, and send them off to do their job," said Professor Axel Kallies, PhD, Laboratory Head at the Doherty Institute and the corresponding author on both studies. "Our research suggests that removing lymph nodes during cancer surgery, a common practice to prevent tumor spread, may inadvertently reduce the effectiveness of treatments, such as checkpoint blockade and CAR T cell therapies. Preserving lymph nodes could strengthen immune responses and increase the effectiveness of immunotherapy."

But what are lymph nodes, and what do they do?
Lymph nodes are small, bean-shaped organs scattered throughout the body that act as checkpoints of the immune system. They filter lymph fluid, which drains from tissues, trapping and destroying germs, cancer cells, and other harmful material. Inside, lymph nodes are packed with immune cells like T cells, B cells, and dendritic cells that communicate, train, and multiply in response to threats

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I guess with my high decipher score it raises the odds for removal even
though I have a very low burden of cancer, if it's absolutely necessary ok
but rather keep them if not.

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Profile picture for Jeff Marchi @jeffmarc

Many doctors will remove six or seven Lymph nodes, even if they show nothing in a scan. Some people have gotten lymphedema when they’ve had too many lymph nodes removed, Or just had them removed without sealing them properly. I can cause a little or a lot of problems. It just varies a lot from person to person.

When I had my surgery 16 years ago, With a 3+4, They didn’t remove any lymph nodes.

Here’s some medical information I capture about this subject.

"Lymph nodes aren't just passive waiting rooms for immune cells, they actively train and educate T cells, and send them off to do their job," said Professor Axel Kallies, PhD, Laboratory Head at the Doherty Institute and the corresponding author on both studies. "Our research suggests that removing lymph nodes during cancer surgery, a common practice to prevent tumor spread, may inadvertently reduce the effectiveness of treatments, such as checkpoint blockade and CAR T cell therapies. Preserving lymph nodes could strengthen immune responses and increase the effectiveness of immunotherapy."

But what are lymph nodes, and what do they do?
Lymph nodes are small, bean-shaped organs scattered throughout the body that act as checkpoints of the immune system. They filter lymph fluid, which drains from tissues, trapping and destroying germs, cancer cells, and other harmful material. Inside, lymph nodes are packed with immune cells like T cells, B cells, and dendritic cells that communicate, train, and multiply in response to threats

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@jeffmarc My limited understanding is the decision seems to be based on surgeon (facility) guidelines. The consensus it’s better to leave alone or remove samples for assurance is what creates confusion to me.
Not sure our preference has much bearing anyway unless also a part of our search criteria for a surgeon

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Profile picture for ginger38314 @ginger38314

How are you doing now and how extensive was your cancer.

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@ginger38314 15 of 15 cores mostly gleason 8-9. Immediate bcr 8wks post op. Psa1.8-2.4 20months adt undetectable then 18months w/o adt undetectable. Now .04 then .1 then .15 then .1 now .14. Petscan shows 2 tiny hot spots. Next move not settled 2-5 fraction proton not recommended. Cryroablation being considered or back on adt.Anyone have experience with needle crypblation?

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