Neuropathy: Numbness only, no pain

Posted by John, Volunteer Mentor @johnbishop, Sep 10, 2020

When I was first diagnosed with idiopathic small fiber peripheral neuropathy and numbness was my only symptom, my neurologist told me that I am one of the "lucky" few who didn't also have pain and other associated symptoms of neuropathy. I knew there were others out there but yesterday I met my first member on Connect who has a similar diagnosis. I want to thank that member for joining Mayo Clinic Connect and sending me a private message that I would like to answer here to start this discussion.

Hello @afirefly, Welcome to Connect. You mentioned being diagnosed with large fiber demyelinating predominately sensory peripheral neuropathy at Mayo Clinic. The neurologist's recommendation was exercise and balance exercises. Your symptoms are less than one year and are primarily progressive loss of sensation in your hands and feet. You also said aside from occasional muscle cramps in your calves and dyesthesias in hands and feet, you experience little discomfort. Your greatest concern now is the degree of disability you will have as the numbness progresses.

I can tell you that we think a lot alike. When I walked out of the neurologists office with similar symptoms of just numbness in the feet and lower legs with no pain – and no recommendations for treatment, I was pretty down. I was told to let them know as the condition progressed and my biggest fear at the time was not being able to drive myself. That's when I started doing my own research and found Mayo Clinic Connect after being diagnosed with idiopathic small fiber PN.

You have some really good and thoughtful questions which I will try to answer the best I can.

Question: Although you have improved on the Protocol, did you ever have complete loss of sensation in your feet? I ask because I truly dread the possibility of total sensory loss in my feet.

Answer: I never had a complete loss of sensation in my feet. At the worst, they felt numb and sometimes tingly but not painful, just uncomfortable. They mostly always feel cold and after being diagnosed with lymphedema I have to wear compression socks which doesn't help the numbness feeling. I have noticed that it seems like I've had some feeling returning ever so often when I'm exercising on my crossfit exercise bike. I use it several times a day for 30 to 45 minutes when I can to build up leg and arm strength. I recently purchased a device called a Sand Dune Stepper to work on my balance issues. I do think it helps and I've noticed a little more feeling in the bottom of my feet – if that makes sense for numb feet. Website – https://www.sanddunestepper.com/
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Question: Assuming you have little or no sensation in your toes and the soles of your feet, are you still able to drive a car?
If yes, would you kindly tell me what maneuvers/measures you have used over the years to compensate for the absence of feeling in your feet while driving?

Answer: I am still able to drive a car. The numbness was always a concern in my mind but never kept me from feeling the pressure of placing my feet on the pedals and pushing them down or letting them up.
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Question: Assuming you have little or no sensation in your toes and the soles of your feet, how difficult is it for you to walk? Before my neuropathy, if my foot was in a position too long it would "go to sleep" from lack of circulation to the nerves. The sensation would return seconds later once I changed my foot position. However, I don't believe I would have been able to walk on that sleeping foot until the circulation had been restored. Please tell me if there are/were any maneuvers/measures you have used over the years to compensate for the absence of feeling in your feet while walking.

Answer: When I was in my late 40s, my wife would sometimes tell me that I walk like an old man and now I am one and still walking the same. I've always been slow getting up and slow to take the first steps when walking. I guess I would call it trying to be careful because I wasn't sure of my footing. I think recognizing that your feet may not be as steady is a good thing and keeps you alert when walking. I struggle with walking any distance due to lower back issues. I recently had some physical therapy to learn some back and stomach muscle strengthing exercises which has helped some. Now I just have to execute a plan to do them often.
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Question: You indicated that the cost of the old Protocol was under $10/day (prior to 525 Protocol) several years ago and that the current 525 Protocol is $6.44/day. Does that mean Protocol 525 these days costs somewhat less than the old (original) Protocol?

Answer: Each item in the original protocol lasted a different number of days so the cost was more spread out and roughly calculated at under $10/day. The new 525 Protocol is a 30 day supply for $6.44/day ($193.20). It's also fewer pills to swallow which I really like. The Ramp up version is different due to the R-ALA in the regular 30 day supply. The daily R-ALA dosage is 1200 mg which causes some people to have stomach problems so the ramp up is to gradually increase the dosage to get use to the higher amount. I never had an issue because I was already taking supplements for the PN from my research and was taking that amount of ALA before I found the original protocol. Related discussion — Have you tried the new Protocol 525 product for neuropathy relief?: https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/have-you-tried-the-new-protocol-525-product-for-neuropathy-relief/
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Question: Do you use orthotics or inserts in your shoes? Special shoes?

Answer: I've tried some orthotics and different inserts but don't always use them. I found some felt/wool inserts that I like during the winter time as an extra cushion. I do like Sketchers because of the memory foam cushion and comfort. I used to wear the canvas shell ones but my neurologist told me it would be best to wear shoes with good side support for walking. So, I try to choose slip-ons with good side support made out of leather. There is another discussion on Connect you might find helpful for shoes – If the shoe fits…right?: https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/if-the-shoe-fits-right/
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Question: Besides daily foot exams, lotion to your feet, and avoiding barefoot walking, are there any other measures you use to protect your numb feet?

Answer: For me, this all started with a trip to the ER after waking up one night to go to the bathroom and when reaching the bathroom seeing blood all over the floor and trying to figure out where it's coming from. Surprised was I to see it pumping in a small stream from my ankle. Long story short, I unconciously rubbed my feet during the night and I had a hang nail on my big toe which tore the skin and part of a vein close to the surface. After that episode, I always wear white short loose socks to bed and I apply lotion to my feet and legs to keep them moisturized. I think that also helps with the healing process when you think that there are tiny sensory nerves just under the skin and it helps to keep the skin moist to protect them.

Hope this helps…let me know if I missed anything or if you have any other questions. We have a great group of members with a lot of experience here on Connect.

John

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Neuropathy Support Group.

Profile picture for amota @amota

My neurologist told me, after a EMG test, that the myelin that protects my peroneal and tibial nerves has been damaged beyond repair. The only thing to do was to exercise and do therapy. I have not pain, just numbness and tingling. I can feel all my toes, ankles, etc.
My right leg is dropped; I almost have to drag it. I am afraid I must stop driving soon. Now I do this just to go to doctor's appointments and to buy food. I am 79 living alone.
The balance is terrible bad. I am using a cane and taking care not to fall.
Thanks God, I don't feel any pain. I do wear compression socks, which I think are very helpful.

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Hello @amota, Welcome to Connect. I also only have numbness and some tingling in my feet and legs along with the poor balance with my neuropathy. Fortunately I still have my wife with me at 83 which is a big help. I'm still walking mostly without a cane but I do have one that I used when I had a knee replacement done a few years ago and need extra support when walking. I wear compression socks to just below my knees for lymphedema in my legs in addition to the neuropathy but the sock keep it fairly well under control.

I do think that exercise and therapy as needed help us maintain our mobility.

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I'm new here. SFN since i was 29 years old when I got ITP an autoimmune that attacks blood platelets. Treated with prednisone and responded well but was left with burning feet. Tolerable until 7 years ago when I turned 60 and one night the burning went from tolerable to unbearable. Have only been offered gabapentin etc. Looking to see if anyone has had success with supplements for the burning.

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Profile picture for paras @paras

I'm new here. SFN since i was 29 years old when I got ITP an autoimmune that attacks blood platelets. Treated with prednisone and responded well but was left with burning feet. Tolerable until 7 years ago when I turned 60 and one night the burning went from tolerable to unbearable. Have only been offered gabapentin etc. Looking to see if anyone has had success with supplements for the burning.

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Welcome @paras, you are not alone! Many members have mentioned burning neuropathy symptoms. There is related discussion you might find helpful:
-- Supplements - What helps nerve pain and/or neuropathy?
https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/supplement-recommendations-can-help/
The Foundation for Peripheral Neuropathy has a list of vitamins and supplements for nerve health here - https://www.foundationforpn.org/vitamins-and-supplements-for-nerve-health/.

Have you had any blood labs to determine if you might have a vitamin deficiency that might be part of the reason for the burning symptoms?

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Good morning, fellow PNers!

I'll lead off by mentioning John (@johnbishop), who mentioned this device a few posts back, but if you have thoughts on the Sanddune Stepper, I'd welcome hearing what you have to say. My PN messes wih my balance. I still get around fairly well, using a cane when necessary. But I'm always looking for new ideas that might help improve my balance. John, after reading your mention of the Stepper, I'm curious. I see the Stepper retails for $279. With your experience with this device, would you call this a good investment? If so, I'll order one today. (I might add that neither John nor I have any affiliation with the maker of theSanddune Stepper.)

Best wishes to us all!
Ray (@ray666)

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Profile picture for Ray Kemble @ray666

Good morning, fellow PNers!

I'll lead off by mentioning John (@johnbishop), who mentioned this device a few posts back, but if you have thoughts on the Sanddune Stepper, I'd welcome hearing what you have to say. My PN messes wih my balance. I still get around fairly well, using a cane when necessary. But I'm always looking for new ideas that might help improve my balance. John, after reading your mention of the Stepper, I'm curious. I see the Stepper retails for $279. With your experience with this device, would you call this a good investment? If so, I'll order one today. (I might add that neither John nor I have any affiliation with the maker of theSanddune Stepper.)

Best wishes to us all!
Ray (@ray666)

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@ray666 Hi Ray, It’s been a while since I last used the Stepper but at your mention of it, I saw it sitting behind the couch and got it out along with my trekking poles and did some walking in place for about 5 minutes. Sigh, I need to start using it again. It makes my feet feel better but challenges my balance. I couldn’t do it without the trekking poles, at least not safely.

I think if I used it like I planned to when I bought it, it would be worth the money.

I’ll have dig out my research on why I bought it and get back to you. I think it can help improve your balance over time as it does strengthen your foot and legs, like walking barefoot in the sand. One end is high density foam and the other end is low density foam. That makes your toes and heels work harder depending on which direction you are standing on the Stepper.
Cheers mate!

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Profile picture for John, Volunteer Mentor @johnbishop

@ray666 Hi Ray, It’s been a while since I last used the Stepper but at your mention of it, I saw it sitting behind the couch and got it out along with my trekking poles and did some walking in place for about 5 minutes. Sigh, I need to start using it again. It makes my feet feel better but challenges my balance. I couldn’t do it without the trekking poles, at least not safely.

I think if I used it like I planned to when I bought it, it would be worth the money.

I’ll have dig out my research on why I bought it and get back to you. I think it can help improve your balance over time as it does strengthen your foot and legs, like walking barefoot in the sand. One end is high density foam and the other end is low density foam. That makes your toes and heels work harder depending on which direction you are standing on the Stepper.
Cheers mate!

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@ray666, When I first got it my balance was a little better and I was able to do some walking in place type exercise on the Stepper. Unless you can stand on one foot for a minute or so without losing balance, I would recommend using a walking stick or better yet trekking poles while you are on it. It definitely exercise the feet, toes and ankles included which I think can help with balance. I'm going to try to make sure I use it 3 to 4 times a week again if I can work it into my busy schedule 🙃. Here's a PDF download that shows different exercises on the Stepper - https://www.sanddunestepper.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/SANDDUNE-Stepper-Exercise-Booklet.pdf.

Here's a small study that was interesting -
A Neuromuscular Training Program Performed on Foam is Accompanied by Improved Balance and Jump Height in Recreational Runners: https://nsuworks.nova.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi.

They have their own YouTube channel that shows how folks are using it - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVnk7L7vfiPlEaaZ7Zo6HtQ.

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Profile picture for John, Volunteer Mentor @johnbishop

@ray666, When I first got it my balance was a little better and I was able to do some walking in place type exercise on the Stepper. Unless you can stand on one foot for a minute or so without losing balance, I would recommend using a walking stick or better yet trekking poles while you are on it. It definitely exercise the feet, toes and ankles included which I think can help with balance. I'm going to try to make sure I use it 3 to 4 times a week again if I can work it into my busy schedule 🙃. Here's a PDF download that shows different exercises on the Stepper - https://www.sanddunestepper.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/SANDDUNE-Stepper-Exercise-Booklet.pdf.

Here's a small study that was interesting -
A Neuromuscular Training Program Performed on Foam is Accompanied by Improved Balance and Jump Height in Recreational Runners: https://nsuworks.nova.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi.

They have their own YouTube channel that shows how folks are using it - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVnk7L7vfiPlEaaZ7Zo6HtQ.

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@johnbishop I'm going to purchase a Sanddune Stepper, John. I figure, what's to lose? (Except the purchase price. 🙂 ) What I like about what I see of the Sanddune Stepper is that it's a straightforward device, something like my ToePro (which I believe is hidden behind my sofa): no batteries required, nothing to plug in, no built-in algorithms, no headset needed to be worn. Straightforward devices like what the Sanddune Stepper appears to be have high appeal for me. You them, They arrive. You set them down on the floor, and from that point on, the devices just look up at you and say, "Well, come on! You paid good money for me. It's all up to you now." / Thank, John for you input! –Ray (@ray666)

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Profile picture for Ray Kemble @ray666

@johnbishop I'm going to purchase a Sanddune Stepper, John. I figure, what's to lose? (Except the purchase price. 🙂 ) What I like about what I see of the Sanddune Stepper is that it's a straightforward device, something like my ToePro (which I believe is hidden behind my sofa): no batteries required, nothing to plug in, no built-in algorithms, no headset needed to be worn. Straightforward devices like what the Sanddune Stepper appears to be have high appeal for me. You them, They arrive. You set them down on the floor, and from that point on, the devices just look up at you and say, "Well, come on! You paid good money for me. It's all up to you now." / Thank, John for you input! –Ray (@ray666)

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This is me again, @ray666. I meant to say in my reply to John (@johnbishop) that I'll happily provide occasional, brief reports on my experience with a Sanddune Stepper. That's the least I can do, now that I have so rudely crashed this Connect forum thread. 🙂 Here's wishing the best to all of my fellow PNers who suffer little or no pain but do have to contend with a wobbly walk! ––Best wishes, Ray (@ray666)

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Profile picture for John, Volunteer Mentor @johnbishop

@ray666, When I first got it my balance was a little better and I was able to do some walking in place type exercise on the Stepper. Unless you can stand on one foot for a minute or so without losing balance, I would recommend using a walking stick or better yet trekking poles while you are on it. It definitely exercise the feet, toes and ankles included which I think can help with balance. I'm going to try to make sure I use it 3 to 4 times a week again if I can work it into my busy schedule 🙃. Here's a PDF download that shows different exercises on the Stepper - https://www.sanddunestepper.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/SANDDUNE-Stepper-Exercise-Booklet.pdf.

Here's a small study that was interesting -
A Neuromuscular Training Program Performed on Foam is Accompanied by Improved Balance and Jump Height in Recreational Runners: https://nsuworks.nova.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi.

They have their own YouTube channel that shows how folks are using it - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVnk7L7vfiPlEaaZ7Zo6HtQ.

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@johnbishop
My balance was much better when I first joined Connect, too. I can't say the deterioration has been terrible, but it has been noticeable. I have found myself lately, in these excoriatingly hot days of summer, when I'm having an especially tough time with my balance, wondering if it's just the relentless heat or if my balance has slipped a notch or two. So far, I've not been able to answer that question. One that I am determined to do, however, is not give up. If a Sanddune Stepper might help with my balance, then, what the heck, I'll give it a try. I don't want to end up an old man (older than I am already 🙂 ), with the world's worst balance, knowing I passed up even one opportunity to––if not restore––at least stop the worsening of my balance.
On we go, eh, John? 🙂
Cheers!
Ray (@ray666)

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Profile picture for Ray Kemble @ray666

@johnbishop
My balance was much better when I first joined Connect, too. I can't say the deterioration has been terrible, but it has been noticeable. I have found myself lately, in these excoriatingly hot days of summer, when I'm having an especially tough time with my balance, wondering if it's just the relentless heat or if my balance has slipped a notch or two. So far, I've not been able to answer that question. One that I am determined to do, however, is not give up. If a Sanddune Stepper might help with my balance, then, what the heck, I'll give it a try. I don't want to end up an old man (older than I am already 🙂 ), with the world's worst balance, knowing I passed up even one opportunity to––if not restore––at least stop the worsening of my balance.
On we go, eh, John? 🙂
Cheers!
Ray (@ray666)

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@ray666 Hi Ray - Please keep us informed on how you make out with the Sanddune Stepper. Since we have very similar symptoms due to PN, I might also decide to go ahead and purchase. However, if you post that you ended up in the ER, then I might just sit back and give it a second consideration. The idea that John suggested poles might not be a bad idea! Ed

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