Next step after PSMApet shows one metastatic cite

Posted by edward72 @edward72, 5 days ago

76 year old man treated 22 years ago with radiation by seed implants and 7 weeks of EBRT. Undetectable and very low level PSA for years. Gleason was 3+4 and tc1 . PSA rose from 1.7 to 2.7 in last 18 months. Scan was done and no bone or organ cited as spread. What was detected is nodule in soft tissue between rectum and pelvis that is 1.7 cm and had SUV of 4.5. Urologist suggesting ADT or surveilance. Seen podcasts suggesting delay of ADT and another suggesting targeted additional radiation. Any thoughts ?

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Profile picture for heavyphil @heavyphil

@edward72 I agree - zap it now if you can…but hold off on ADT to see if your PSA drops after treatment.
That’s the only way you’ll know if the PSA was only from that suspected lesion.
The change (or not) will then dictate next steps and you may 🤞wind up needing no ADT at all. Just my two cents…
Phil

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@heavyphil
Thanks . That approach with no ADT could indicate just one lesion. It seems like doing the zapping with ADT also could determine if just one lesion if no recurrence. But you are right that would involve side effects and I expect longer timeframe. Very helpful.

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Profile picture for kujhawk1978 @kujhawk1978

It seems the consensus is to either use MDT which can push back the need for systemic therapy or...use short term systemic therapy in combination with MDT.

What is "short term...?" That can be anywhere from 6-36 months though six seems a reasonable choice in this case.

If you and your medical team choose the MDT + systemic therapy then you'll need to decide which drug, Lupron, Orgovyx...the latter has advantages over the former:
No flare
Faster castration
Higher sustained castration while on it
Faster T recovery when stopping
Lower CV side effect profile

Same side effects though, hot flashes, fatigue, muscle and joint stiffness, genitalia shrinkage...

There is some literature that says those SEs may be "less severe..."

Having done both I'm going to say I don't notice a difference.

There is a third option,, do nothing...this presentation, length, discusses an intriguing point...with advances in imaging, are we treating sooner just because we can see earlier? Does it change the eventual outcome, OS or just PFS and RPFS while subjecting us to the toxicities of treatment.

That answer may lie in one's clinical data, high risk, intermediate, low, age and life expectancy ...? I'm pretty high risk so I treat sooner rather than later. Still, over time I've seen people and their medical teams wait to treat until PSA hit 2, 8, 10...

I can see the logic in the discussion being a 12 year member of this club and back in the day, a CT was useless under a PSA of 20 or so, thus treatment was based mainly on PSA.
https://ancan.us14.list-manage.com/track/click
Still, doing nothing is hard to do in the face of clinical data that says something is going on.

When my PCa came back after a five year vacation from triplet therapy, there was a single lymph node identified in a PSMA scan.

MDT was an option but given my clinical history, high risk, I knew there was micro metastatic disease too small to be seen so opted to include 12 months systemic therapy, Orgovyx.

I am two years out from completing that, PSA stable at .03, next labs in July.

Would the outcome have been different if I had done MDT, or as my oncologist wanted, 24 months + an ARI...well never know, we made a decision, no take backs as they say!

My point is you have multiple choices, any of which is likely a good decision

Kevin

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@kujhawk1978 New at this and not sure what MDT stands for. Suspect in this context it is targeted radiation

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Profile picture for edward72 @edward72

@kujhawk1978 New at this and not sure what MDT stands for. Suspect in this context it is targeted radiation

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@edward72

Correct - Metastases Directed Therapy...radiation that is targeted at know locations based on imaging.

The analogy I use is smart versus dumb bombs...

Kevin

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