@labexperiment Agree with your perspective on this. AFL tends to want to stay in AFL, whereas the earliest stages of AF, they being 'paroxysmal (comes and goes, but mostly absent) and 'persistent' (begins to assert itself more often, and goes on more than a week at a time), mean you are in normal sinus rhythm much/most of the time. Flutter is often more asymptomatic for the patient than AF is; both can be complete surprises to their hosts when a physician tells them they are in AFL or AF. I know a very active retired professor who found out about his own AFL in a doctor's office. They rushed him through the lineup for an ablation, which he got in ten days instead of ten weeks because they weren't sure how long he'd been in flutter, and it can really put a load on the heart. He had to have two ablations if I recall correctly, but he has been in NSR for over five years now.