Convulsive pre-syncope

@sb4ca
That does sound scary.

What testing and treatments have you had so far? Are you taking any medications? What conditions have you been diagnosed with? What types of specialists are you working with now?

My cardiologist diagnosed me. I think OH is one form of autonomic dysfunction. The autonomic system controls things like blood pressure, breathing, heart beating and all the things the body does behind the scenes. Once diagnosed I don’t see any specialists. I have to stay hyper hydrated and eat salty snacks per my cardiologist.

@sb4ca I think you have some complexity with this issue of syncope. I am suspecting that because of scar tissue and tightness in your neck from cervical spine surgery and perhaps muscle spasms, that it may be able to affect nerves involved with your heart rate or blood pressure. The body has a mechanism for when blood pressure gets too high that causes syncope. That used to happen to me because I was fearful of trauma and pain and anxious about it and I would pass out. That was described to me as my body's way to diffuse a situation of blood pressure getting too high due to fear that essentially dilated blood vessels to drop pressure instantly. I could always tell when it was coming like you. It sounds like you are in a similar situation. Do you know what triggers this for you?

Have you talked to your spine specialist about this?

What may possibly be beneficial would be to do myofascial release therapy to loosnen tight scar tissue and tight muscle tissue that may be provoking the nerve nearby.

Here is our discussion on MFR therapy.
https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/myofascial-release-therapy-mfr-for-treating-compression-and-pain/
There is a provider search at this link.
http://mfrtherapists.com/

@sb4ca
My teen son has a heart defect, Reynauds syndrome, and POTS like symptoms. He never had the Covid shots but had Covid 2 times. I understand that Covid can damage the nervous system.

My son’s cardiologist also suggested super hydration with electrolytes included (like LMNT brand) to help insure absorption and retention to maintain blood pressure and also eat salty snacks. 🙂 He was also told to make sure to get sleep and exercise plus limit video games/screen time. That is really hard for him. 😉

@sb4ca I think you have some complexity with this issue of syncope. I am suspecting that because of scar tissue and tightness in your neck from cervical spine surgery and perhaps muscle spasms, that it may be able to affect nerves involved with your heart rate or blood pressure. The body has a mechanism for when blood pressure gets too high that causes syncope. That used to happen to me because I was fearful of trauma and pain and anxious about it and I would pass out. That was described to me as my body's way to diffuse a situation of blood pressure getting too high due to fear that essentially dilated blood vessels to drop pressure instantly. I could always tell when it was coming like you. It sounds like you are in a similar situation. Do you know what triggers this for you?

Have you talked to your spine specialist about this?

What may possibly be beneficial would be to do myofascial release therapy to loosnen tight scar tissue and tight muscle tissue that may be provoking the nerve nearby.

Here is our discussion on MFR therapy.
https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/myofascial-release-therapy-mfr-for-treating-compression-and-pain/
There is a provider search at this link.
http://mfrtherapists.com/

@jenniferhunter
I landed on this note you wrote to sb4ca because I am looking for answers to an incident I had about a week ago which resulted in a hospitalization and testing that is still going on.

As background, I am a 73-year-old man, diabetic (30+ years well controlled with insulin), IBS (50+ years), arthritis in multiple joints, unexplained breathing and shortness of breath issues, hyperacusis, acute pancreatitis (thanks to Long Covid) and 24 years in the Air Force exposed to asbestos, possible nuclear exposure, and who knows what in Saudi Arabia. I weigh 195 and am 70 inches tall. Although a long-term diabetic, I have no foot or eye issues. I have carpal tunnel, arthritis, and a pinched nerve in my right arm/hand. I have never had any cardiac issues, I had ACDF surgery in 2015 where C1 and C2 had been fused since birth; the surgeon had to fuse through C5.

I was in a grocery store last week approximately five hours after eating breakfast (no further food that morning) when I suddenly started feeling lightheaded and almost immediately experienced problems seeing anything other than a blur. I thought it was my body telling me I needed food so I managed to get to the cracker aisle about two aisles from where I was. My plan was to rip open a box of crackers to eat something. That’s the last thing I remember until I woke up in an emergency room an hour or so later. An employee at the store witnessed what he thought was a seizure. He said I went stiff and was shaking uncontrollably before I fell over gripping the cart and taking it with me. The EMTs treated it as a seizure, but the ED doc seemed to feel differently. I had bit both my tongue and my lip. I have a contusions on my left elbow and on the right abdomen above the belt. Although I have no memory of the incident, the ambulance ride, and the first hour in the ED, I apparently was functioning to some degree according to witnesses. I am told my eyes were open in the store and I was mumbling incoherently. When I asked my daughter several days later how she was notified of this, she said I called her. Sure enough, there is a call on my cell phone to her before I was “awake” in ED. She said I wasn’t making much sense and she asked me to hand the phone to someone else who apparently filled her in. But, I had to have made the call because I would have had to unlock the phone.

I was given a brain CT scan and an ultrasound echo of the heart shortly after regaining consciousness. Also, chest x-rays and an x-ray of my neck because my daughter had arrived by then and told them of my old ACDF surgery. I was initially admitted to observation which was changed to inpatient status a few hours later, I was given a 24-hour EEG with x-rays repeated. Since discharge, I have had a brain MRI (no results yet) and I have an outpatient 24-hour EEG scheduled in a couple of days.

The neurologist I see for the right hand/arm issues is associated with the hospital where the EMTs took me, so she knew of my admission and insisted on seeing me the day after discharge, She ordered the brain MRI and the outpatient EEG. My primary doctor was also notified of my hospitalization and insisted on an office visit which will take place in a couple of days.

I was sort of agreeing with the neurologist that this was an incident of convulsive syncope without seizure, but I wasn’t completely sold on her diagnosis until reading your comment about scar tissue from neck and/or cervical surgery. I wasn’t sold on the neurologist’s thought that there had been a sudden restriction of blood flow to the brain. However, I can see that scar tissue in the neck might cause pinched nerves or restricted blood flow and I know I already have a pinched median nerve on the right side. I will ask the primary when I see her on Tuesday if that could be any connection. I have not had any reason to see the neurosurgeon since 4 weeks after the surgery 11 years ago,

In hindsight, I realize I had one incident like this a few months ago. I was kneeling down working in a garden at my daughter’s house. When I stood up I immediately felt faint and lightheaded, but wrote it off to a vasovagal episode brought on by getting up too quickly on a hot day. As I tried to clear my head that day, my vision blurred and I stumbled to a nearby fence where I bent over and put my head down on the top of the fence. That was as close as I could get to putting my head between my knees. I recovered in about a minute without losing consciousness.

Okay, lots of information here. Is cervical scar tissue something I need to discuss with my primary this week or the neurologist a week or so later? Could cervical scar tissue affect a nerve or blood vessel enough to reduce blood flow to the brain, bringing on convulsive syncope?

Thanks. I think the Mayo Clinic site is great.

@jenniferhunter
I landed on this note you wrote to sb4ca because I am looking for answers to an incident I had about a week ago which resulted in a hospitalization and testing that is still going on.

As background, I am a 73-year-old man, diabetic (30+ years well controlled with insulin), IBS (50+ years), arthritis in multiple joints, unexplained breathing and shortness of breath issues, hyperacusis, acute pancreatitis (thanks to Long Covid) and 24 years in the Air Force exposed to asbestos, possible nuclear exposure, and who knows what in Saudi Arabia. I weigh 195 and am 70 inches tall. Although a long-term diabetic, I have no foot or eye issues. I have carpal tunnel, arthritis, and a pinched nerve in my right arm/hand. I have never had any cardiac issues, I had ACDF surgery in 2015 where C1 and C2 had been fused since birth; the surgeon had to fuse through C5.

I was in a grocery store last week approximately five hours after eating breakfast (no further food that morning) when I suddenly started feeling lightheaded and almost immediately experienced problems seeing anything other than a blur. I thought it was my body telling me I needed food so I managed to get to the cracker aisle about two aisles from where I was. My plan was to rip open a box of crackers to eat something. That’s the last thing I remember until I woke up in an emergency room an hour or so later. An employee at the store witnessed what he thought was a seizure. He said I went stiff and was shaking uncontrollably before I fell over gripping the cart and taking it with me. The EMTs treated it as a seizure, but the ED doc seemed to feel differently. I had bit both my tongue and my lip. I have a contusions on my left elbow and on the right abdomen above the belt. Although I have no memory of the incident, the ambulance ride, and the first hour in the ED, I apparently was functioning to some degree according to witnesses. I am told my eyes were open in the store and I was mumbling incoherently. When I asked my daughter several days later how she was notified of this, she said I called her. Sure enough, there is a call on my cell phone to her before I was “awake” in ED. She said I wasn’t making much sense and she asked me to hand the phone to someone else who apparently filled her in. But, I had to have made the call because I would have had to unlock the phone.

I was given a brain CT scan and an ultrasound echo of the heart shortly after regaining consciousness. Also, chest x-rays and an x-ray of my neck because my daughter had arrived by then and told them of my old ACDF surgery. I was initially admitted to observation which was changed to inpatient status a few hours later, I was given a 24-hour EEG with x-rays repeated. Since discharge, I have had a brain MRI (no results yet) and I have an outpatient 24-hour EEG scheduled in a couple of days.

The neurologist I see for the right hand/arm issues is associated with the hospital where the EMTs took me, so she knew of my admission and insisted on seeing me the day after discharge, She ordered the brain MRI and the outpatient EEG. My primary doctor was also notified of my hospitalization and insisted on an office visit which will take place in a couple of days.

I was sort of agreeing with the neurologist that this was an incident of convulsive syncope without seizure, but I wasn’t completely sold on her diagnosis until reading your comment about scar tissue from neck and/or cervical surgery. I wasn’t sold on the neurologist’s thought that there had been a sudden restriction of blood flow to the brain. However, I can see that scar tissue in the neck might cause pinched nerves or restricted blood flow and I know I already have a pinched median nerve on the right side. I will ask the primary when I see her on Tuesday if that could be any connection. I have not had any reason to see the neurosurgeon since 4 weeks after the surgery 11 years ago,

In hindsight, I realize I had one incident like this a few months ago. I was kneeling down working in a garden at my daughter’s house. When I stood up I immediately felt faint and lightheaded, but wrote it off to a vasovagal episode brought on by getting up too quickly on a hot day. As I tried to clear my head that day, my vision blurred and I stumbled to a nearby fence where I bent over and put my head down on the top of the fence. That was as close as I could get to putting my head between my knees. I recovered in about a minute without losing consciousness.

Okay, lots of information here. Is cervical scar tissue something I need to discuss with my primary this week or the neurologist a week or so later? Could cervical scar tissue affect a nerve or blood vessel enough to reduce blood flow to the brain, bringing on convulsive syncope?

Thanks. I think the Mayo Clinic site is great.