Red meat & Prostrate Cancer

@brianjarvis Good articles, Brian; but they left out an important metric - at least in the first article I read: what amount in grams are they talking about when they say ‘higher intakes’? Higher than what exactly?
I always believed in ‘all things in moderation’ and still do. But again, what exactly is that and who is keeping score on what is moderate?
Interestingly, when I became allergic to all red meat and its byproducts after a tick bite, my diet was exclusively poultry based. Yes, I also ate eggs -maybe 2 per week? And consumed dairy in the form of 2% yogurt 5X/week - all heart healthy recommendations.
Yet, my prostate cancer returned ON THIS VERY DIET, so I still am more inclined toward the genetics of disease over our ability to control them with diet.
Can diet help? Maybe…but as they say, put lipstick on a pig, you still have a pig.
Jim Fixx famously thought he could ‘outrun’ his genetic history of cardiac death at an early age…he could not. Best,
Phil

I posted this back in December. It is appropriate to post it again here.

I will state up front that this comment will be helpful to no one and is certainly not advice.

I am 70 years old. I have stage C3 heart failure and stage IVB prostate cancer. I'll be damned if I'm going to restrict myself to foods that do not give me pleasure. One of highlights of the quality of life I cherish is to enjoy my meals and my snacks. I'm pretty certain that a T-Bone or candy bar is the least of my problems. I do not eat for dinner what my dinner eats for dinner and for those that are unaware, Reese's Peanut Butter Cups are their own food group. 😁

@mjp0512 Good for you!! You know, two things that are glaringly absent in these dietary discussions are the effects of water and air…
No one ever talks about all the harmful chemicals we all ingest in our water, which is like 98% of our body weight. What about all THESE substances causing PCa?? Oh, you have filters? Good luck with those because unless you change the medium (charcoal, coconut husks) VERY frequently, you are filtering nothing.
And air? How many breaths do we take every single day of our lives? Do we know what is contained in it? We do not.
No matter where you live - even in a rural area - there are micro-particulates in the air which have a direct impact on our health; many times, these particulates (and gases) are directly linked to cancer formation.
So to really focus on food only is crazy when drinking water (including bottled, beverages, prepared soups, etc) is so much more impactful and breathing is something you cannot do without!
I live way out on Eastern Long Island in NY. Most of us call it ‘God’s Country’ because of the open farm fields and blue skies over the bays and LI Sound. But, as I soon found out, most of the water here is contaminated with Temik (aldicarb), an insecticide used to kill the potato beetle. Union Carbide will provide filters if you use well water. It’s also been discovered that POA/PFOAs are present in many of the municipal water supplies as well! Gee, WTF is coming out of my tap here in the Garden of Eden?
And the air, so fresh blowing in off the water, is filled with a toxic blend of particulates which arises from the NYC Metro area and blows easterly right onto our little spot of paradise. No wonder the sunsets are so beautiful - gas and dust provide the perfect medium for UV rays to reflect, bounce around and offer technicolor displays when the sun goes down…and I should worry about eating a steak??🤔
Phil

After my RP, I asked my surgeon about diet. His only response, “no red meat.” That was not a problem for me because I gave it up years earlier. My regular doctor, who also specializes in Prostate health, said”no processed or cured meats”. I also eliminated processed sugars(which was hard because I have a sweet tooth). After dropping the sugars I lost about 12 pounds. I eat lots of vegetables, especially broccoli and lots of fruits. It works for me. As many have said, moderation is the way to go. Others have said they will eat what they want and die happy doing so. Obviously, there is no “one size fits all”. Hope this is helpful. Best of luck.

Well... just so you folks don't take me for an ignant rebel who cares little about his health, 90% of my protein comes from homestead raised rabbit, quail, and quail eggs. (My homestead, my rabbit, my quail). Doesn't get much healthier than to kill your dinner the day you eat it or cook your eggs that were laid that morning. I'll take that over plastic wrapped mystery meat from the supermarket any day. And my T-Bones...they come from my neighbor's Welch Black herd. Pretty sure most folks here can't say their food is that fresh or that they know exactly what it was fed from birth to butcher. And my French Fries, I harvested the Yukon Golds and Red Pontiacs out back last September. I do, however, buy ketchup and Reese's at the store so there's that. 🤣😁

@heavyphil Exactly what Phil wrote — the strongest evidence (reproduced in multiple studies) is that excessive consumption of *preserved* meats has a correlation with occurrence and progression of various cancers, including prostate.

So maybe save the hot dogs and cold cuts for rare, "sometimes" occasions like holiday BBQs or camping trips, but otherwise, just eat a healthy, balanced diet, and exercise moderation (not abstinence) for things like red meat, refined sugar, and fried foods.

p.s. I've been vegetarian since the late 1990s, so I have no personal interest either way

@heavyphil

Thanks Phil, I really appreciate your input 🙏 you’re right you can’t out run genetics……

Ray 🇺🇸

@mjp0512

Thank you 🙏 I really appreciate your feed back!

Ray🇺🇸

Hello:
I've commented on another thread last month that Dr. Greger, NutritionFacts.org has the evidence in his videos of high quality research studies showing bacon and processes meats as Class I Carcinogens. Also, any animal product has the potential to stimulate cancer cell growth because they all contain a special biochemical IFC-1.
In one study, the tumors actually shrunk.
I have attached screen shots from his video on Breast and Prostate cancer. Whole plant diets also save us men from heart disease. The Ornish Study is solid evidence for the whole foods diet.
The American Dietetics Association produced a position paper about 10 years ago, showing the veggie or true vegan diet(whole foods) was not only the healthiest diet, but actually preventative for the big 5 that Americans face- certain types of cancer, heart disease, diabetes, obesity, and high blood pressure. See file attached here.
See several 5-6 min. videos at https://nutritionfacts.org/

@brianjarvis The link you provided seems to indicate that many studies link red meat and cancer.