What to say to guys who don't believe in doctors?

Posted by bluegill @bluegill, 2 days ago

Lately I've become a reluctant evangelist for getting PSA checked. If I know a guy between 40 and 60 I ask if he's had it done, and most say yes. (I was negligent in getting mine checked regularly, so now I'm most likely on Lupron for life)

So I meet this guy, he's 59, we have some stuff in common, we're chatting in a coffee shop and so I tell him I have PCa and ask if he's had his PSA checked.

"No. I don't go to doctors. I drink an herbal tea so I don't have to pee so often at night."

Pause.

I changed the subject.

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Prostate Cancer Support Group.

Profile picture for bluegill @bluegill

I'm re-thinking my evangelistic zeal for sharing the Good News about PSA testing. Is it that I really want to save lives, or is it that I want to feel less guilty for being so stupid (for not having had mine checked regularly)?

Maybe I just need to finish my morning coffee.

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@bluegill I've already received thanks from one person for doing that. He said I "saved his life," which might be a slight exaggeration, but they did catch his Gleason 9 cancer before it metastasised.

Don't overthink it. Until our various public health authorities around the world get their 💩 together and admit they were tragically wrong to recommend against routine PSA screening, it's up to us to spread the good word..

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There’s faith and there’s science. Two ways of “knowing”. I think the secret is balancing the two.

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Profile picture for ucla2025 @ucla2025

There’s faith and there’s science. Two ways of “knowing”. I think the secret is balancing the two.

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@ucla2025 Render unto Science that which is Science's, and unto God that which is God's.

Like you imply, the two shouldn't be in competition: if a person of faith prays for help with their cancer, their God's answer may be a good oncologist and helpful medications. It would be arrogant to close oneself off from that.

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Profile picture for northoftheborder @northoftheborder

@ucla2025 Render unto Science that which is Science's, and unto God that which is God's.

Like you imply, the two shouldn't be in competition: if a person of faith prays for help with their cancer, their God's answer may be a good oncologist and helpful medications. It would be arrogant to close oneself off from that.

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@northoftheborder Agree! Why not accept all the universe has to offer? In my mind the alternative is to miss much of what is going on all around us, all the time.

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Profile picture for thmssllvn @thmssllvn

How about requiring an annual physical exam to renew a drivers license? Hitting someone with a car if purposeful is use of a deadly weapon. They require it for pilots and commercial 'over the road' truckers [?]. Some states require annual car inspections. The driver's hardware and software as important for travelers who
may be injured by poor 'equipment' There would be a benefit to public safety at large and helping individuals too afraid to doctor up. Maybe cut off ages such as
50 and forward may be useful. Just speculating I know the pendulum is in an opposite direction at the present time.

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@thmssllvn The annual FAA medical exam can't catch much (other than high blood pressure) if the pilot doesn't complain. There's no blood test required (which might catch cholesterol issues). Given the FAA's hyper sensitivity about many medical issues, most pilots don't volunteer much in their FAA exam. The FAA used to mandate a rectal prostate exam for every man at any age, until common sense stopped that. There are other silly examples (provided upon request).

Some pilots with minor medical issues have two doctors, one for the exam, & one for their health. However, hiding those visits from the FAA can get you in big trouble.

From the standpoint of this discussion, the big benefit is that pilots are used to getting medical exams, & most are sensitive to dealing early with any medical issues that might end their career.

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Profile picture for dkgibson @dkgibson

@thmssllvn The annual FAA medical exam can't catch much (other than high blood pressure) if the pilot doesn't complain. There's no blood test required (which might catch cholesterol issues). Given the FAA's hyper sensitivity about many medical issues, most pilots don't volunteer much in their FAA exam. The FAA used to mandate a rectal prostate exam for every man at any age, until common sense stopped that. There are other silly examples (provided upon request).

Some pilots with minor medical issues have two doctors, one for the exam, & one for their health. However, hiding those visits from the FAA can get you in big trouble.

From the standpoint of this discussion, the big benefit is that pilots are used to getting medical exams, & most are sensitive to dealing early with any medical issues that might end their career.

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@dkgibson The Transport Canada aviation aviation medical is probably similar. The doctor takes a urine sample (for blood sugar, not drug testing) and checks your blood pressure, vision, and hearing. If you're over 40, every 4 years you also have to take an ECG. The rest is voluntary disclosure.

When I disclosed what happened to me in 2021, the reason they gave for taking away my medical was the spinal surgery, not the cancer drugs.

My surgeon took that personally and volunteered to write a letter, and an aviation lawyer (recommended by COPA) thought I had a strong case, but I decided not to pursue it (yet) because they still have the opportunity to fall back on the ADT and ARSI (which they ignored in their letter) if I were to win over the spinal injury.

I've went up with an instructor in a rental Cessna a couple of years ago (when I was still walking with a cane), and he said my stick-and-rudder skills and situational awareness were solid, despite 2 years away and everything that happened to me, so maybe some day I'll take up the fight. 🤷

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Profile picture for heavyphil @heavyphil

@thmssllvn There was a congressman on TV the other day saying that very thing; why should people who get regular checkups and take care of whatever health problems may arise PAY the same premiums as those obese smokers with uncontrolled diabetes?
Even car insurance is reduced by ‘good driver’ points or by attending driver safety courses, right?
Unfortunately, people only feel the need to do something when they are either forced by circumstance or hit hard in the pocketbook!
Phil

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@heavyphil Decades ago I worked for a company that was self-insured and charged employees higher medical premiums for being at higher risk.

It wasn’t just things like obesity, smoking or uncontrolled diabetes. It also involved engaging in risky extracurricular activities - like SCUBA diving (which is what I did back then), horseback riding, sky diving, racing cars, and more. (There was a medical questionnaire we had to fill out each year.) And if we had a pre-existing condition, we’d better sign up within the first 30 days of employment or the pre-existing condition wouldn’t be grandfathered and we’d pay higher premiums.

The company was also looking out for its pocketbooks.

(There are companies today that charge higher health insurance premiums tied to an employee’s controllable health status - like BMI.)

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I would do exactly what you did.

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Profile picture for bluegill @bluegill

I'm re-thinking my evangelistic zeal for sharing the Good News about PSA testing. Is it that I really want to save lives, or is it that I want to feel less guilty for being so stupid (for not having had mine checked regularly)?

Maybe I just need to finish my morning coffee.

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@bluegill you are doing the right thing. I have 2 acquaintances who were diagnosed as a result of getting PSA tests due to my urging. Enjoy your coffee and keep spreading the Good News!

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