Connect
A couple of notes on diet and cancer
We all want to do everything we can to keep our cancer under control. But when we're looking at studies that an elevated level of X correlates with an elevated risk of cancer, there's an important distinction that often gets lost in the hype.
Some parts of your body are directly exposed to potential carcinogens: examples include UV on your skin, smoke into your lungs, or alcohol filtered through your liver. There's pretty-much a 1:1 relationship between how much you consume and the level of possible carcinogens those organs are exposed to.
But cancers like prostate cancer aren't exposed directly to what you eat or breathe or sunbathe in. Instead, they indirectly see the regulated levels in your bloodstream: for example, your pancreas will control your blood sugar level, so that eating more sugar doesn't mean that prostate cancer cells have more glucose to feed on (and vice-versa). And your liver will help regulate your choline level, even synthesising some if it thinks you're not getting enough from your diet.
So while these early correlation studies are useful for showing scientists where it might be worth looking next, they're often not very useful for making practical decisions about what to eat as a prostate-cancer patient.
Not only are many/most of them unreproduceable (they next time someone does a study, they don't find the same correlation), but there's often a missing link: for example, does eating more eggs actually raise the choline level much in your bloodstream, or does your body compensate to keep it roughly the same? Will cutting out eggs completely lower your choline level, or will your liver just synthesise more? Because these levels are indirect, it's very tricky making medical recommendations based on them, which is why we have so few official recommendations for diet related to prostate cancer, and (AFAIK) none that's entirely conclusive yet (though avoiding high consumption of processed meats is getting close).
p.s. Before making any decisions, bring this info to your oncologist. Listen to them, not me.
Like
Helpful
HugInterested in more discussions like this? Go to the Prostate Cancer Support Group.
Connect
Oh, and by the way, many (perhaps even most) studies published in peer-reviewed journals turn out to be non-reproducible. That's the point: researchers use the journals to share their findings, then other researchers try to reproduce or build on them.
Before publication, peer reviewers just make sure that the research is relevant, ethical, and properly conducted — they don't rerun the research
You're glimpsing a scientific conversation in progress when you look at individual journal articles, not a conclusion. Those conversations often go on for many years (or decades) before anything actionable comes out, if it ever does.
The ones that are (fairly) reliable are massive, double-blind, multi-year trials like TITAN or STAMPEDE, but they're incredibly expensive. Nobody's setting up a multiyear study where the participants and their doctors don't know whether they're getting fake milk or real milk, or fake eggs or real eggs. They just send a self-reporting survey around (at best) or do some curve fitting on raw data from some other research that happens to mention (say) eggs and cancer.
-
Like -
Helpful -
Hug
3 Reactions@northoftheborder
Sensible comment but do note that a UCLA and European study have both shown the higher death rate because of inadequate PSA testing. The reason for the reduced testing was the theory that false positive PSA's would result in unneeded biopsies which have some risk of injury and infection. However today we can do less dangerous MRI and PET scans rather than a biopsy. The 16-member government group that made the decision had no urologists or doctors familiar with prostate cancer.
-
Like -
Helpful -
Hug
3 Reactions@pesquallie Oh, no debate at all about the PSA testing. While unproven, it's a pretty persuasive correlation (because it represents two things _changing_ at the same time), and I think the opponents to routine screening PSA testing need to come up with a convincing alternative explanation (which they likely can't).
I've actually posted the exact same thing as you multiple times here in the forum.
Cheers.
-
Like -
Helpful -
Hug
2 Reactions@northoftheborder And about that, North…your own avoidance of red meat did not prevent you from having a very aggressive form of PCa at a young age, right? But the diet zealots will say it must have been the dairy! No…the eggs! The poultry!! No….not organic??
You can’t argue with a true believer when it comes to anything; their beliefs are pure, their resolve unshakeable, their heads thick as cement…
Phil
-
Like -
Helpful -
Hug
3 Reactions@xahnegrey40 The lack of physicals/PSA testing during that period DEFINITELY produced the rash of advanced PCa cases we’re seeing today. I totally agree and count myself in their number.
I do not think, however, that a brief interval (or even a long one) of eating natural cottage cheese with honey caused or exacerbated a case of aggressive PCa…your DNA is not THAT susceptible to damage by wholesome foods, regardless of what the food police will claim.
I eat 2% Greek yogurt every single day - lowfat simply because of calories, nothing more. (I love the full fat too, but prefer ice cream if I’m gonna go for it)🤗.
I have it with blueberries (not organic) and chopped almonds.
It’s delicious, nutricious, full of vitamins, minerals, etc. If eating this is gonna kill me, I might as well just pack it in now and be done with it.
Phil
-
Like -
Helpful -
Hug
5 Reactions@heavyphil I don't want to mock them, though — we're all in a difficult place with this cancer, and it's fully understandable that people are looking for ways to feel in control again. The only thing I'll ask is to back off on the diet proselytizing, since there's not much actually established about links between diet and prostate cancer (mainly just isolated studies suggesting statistical correlations), and overselling any tenuous diet:prostate cancer might convince new patients wrongly to start blaming themselves.
I'd suggest that people stick to "I" statements and acknowledging the uncertainty, like "I've decided to stop eating eggs until there's more research to establish whether or not there's a real link." That's totally fair, and no one should jump on anyone for a personal choice like that.
-
Like -
Helpful -
Hug
4 Reactions@heavyphil
OMG Phil, I have Oikos Pro, 25g protein with blueberries every single day too! I think we're gonna live till we're 120, right? 🙂
-
Like -
Helpful -
Hug
2 Reactions@dpayton Gotta check that one out - I eat the Fage 2% but yours has a lot more protein. Thanks, bud!
@heavyphil
I have the Yuka app. It seems to like that one quite well. Also tried the lower protein version and the numbers weren’t quite as good.
Hope ya like it!!💪💪
-
Like -
Helpful -
Hug
1 Reaction@dpayton Thanks for the tip!
Phil
-
Like -
Helpful -
Hug
1 Reaction